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Planning Minutes 06/04/2002 . CITY OF AMMON PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION June 4, 2002 Minutes of the Public Hearing and Regular Meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission: The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tom Hunsaker at 6:30 p.m. in the City Building, 2135 South Ammon Road, Ammon, Idaho. Tom Hunsaker, Chairman Greg Maeser Ron Folsom Elaine McGary Dick Bybee Cindy Donovan Doug Willden MEMBERS PRESENT MEMBERS ABSENT Maxine Hardy, Vice Chairman Kevin Murray CITY OFFICIALS PRESENT . Bill Manwill, Engineer David Wadsworth, Public Works Director Terri Scott, Deputy Clerk The minutes of the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting held March 5, 2002, were reviewed. Greg Maeser had a couple of grammatical changes. Ron Folsom moved to approve the minutes of March 5, 2002, as corrected. Chairman Hunsaker noted an additional discrepancy. Page 2 shows that Rex Coles and Dennis Kiser live at the same address. Rex and Marjorie Coles live at 2643 South 45th East. Dennis Kiser lives at 2797 South 45th East. Greg Maeser seconded the motion with the corrections. Voting was unanimous in favor. Chairman Hunsaker opened the Public Hearing to consider the request for annexation with initial zoning of RP for 26.62 acres owned by of Mark and Aimee Johnson and David and Shawna Chamberlain. Notice of the Hearing was published in two issues of the Post Register. Also, notices of the hearing were mailed to property owners within five hundred (500) feet and to other interested parties. Chairman swore in parties in interest who desired to present testimony. . Alan Cunningham of Mountain River Engineering represented the developers to explain the request. This request was presented in March and there was some discussion on the property issue with the Whitings and Rex Coles. Mark's deed . Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting, June 4, 2002 - Page 2 line goes passed the fence line and the annexation request included to the deed line. The Whitings expressed concern. The developers have tried to be accommodating and not pass the fence line. The packet includes a map that shows how the legal description is contiguous with the City of Ammon in the southwest corner of The Cottages. Mark Johnson wants to annex into the City so he can eventually subdivide his property. The description includes provision for getting 90% of the water and sewer lines in the City. The request for annexation was denied in March because of the property issue and there was a question concerning the flood plain. The new FEMA map, which became effective April 2, 2002, shows that the property is in flood zone X. The notice to the adjacent property owners advised of the plan to annex this property, but it did not try to determine if they wanted their property to be considered for annexation. This annexation generates an island of property. Alan Cunningham oriented the Commission members to the ownership of the various properties. . Greg Maeser asked about the property to the east. It is owned by David Chamberlain, and it is basically farmland. Chamberlain's house is at the end of the Drive. A concern the Commission had at the March hearing was with the street. Is the street going to be widened and what is happening with the cul-de- sac? Alan Cunningham explained that would be addressed in the Preliminary Plat unless the Commission wants to it to be part of the annexation. Chairman Hunsaker stated that as long as Mark Johnson is comfortable with getting one but not necessarily the other they could be split. Another question is regarding the property line. The property line has been moved to the fence line. The actual description of what has been advertised is to the fence line. It is anticipated that Mark Johnson will eventually quit claim the property to the Whitings. There are a number of things that need to be cleaned up in this quarter section because of the Snell Rock issue. Mark's deed line still goes to the top line but he does not have any right to do anything with the property. He understands that, but on paper, which everyone is taxed on, his property goes to the deed line. Chairman Hunsaker called for testimony in favor of the annexation. The initial zoning asked for is the most restrictive. Details regarding the RP zone were explained. Dennis Kiser, 2797 South 45th East, asked about the zoning on the neighboring properties across Crowley Road. He was of the opinion that the property across Crowley Road to the south of Mountain Valley Estates (south of Mason Street) was zoned commercial. It is not annexed to the City of Ammon. Ammon's Comprehensive Plan Land Use Map currently designates the area as low-density residential. . . Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting, June 4, 2002 - Page 3 Brooke Magleby, 5360 Lindee Lane, lives in The Cottages. She is in favor of the annexation. She sees that it would create several pockets of properties that would not be contiguous with City of Ammon. This is a concern of the city officials and they are trying to take care of it. It is a wonderful addition to the City of Ammon. In the long run it is beneficial, but she has concern about the pockets being created. . There was no additional public input. Engineer Manwill restated that the quarter section has had problems, which he has dealt with in working for Bonneville County. The problem came out because the fences and the properties were originally divided up based on where the existing road was. When the survey points came in, they found out the original survey point that John David put in is about eighty (80) feet to the south and a little east of the intersection of Crowley Road and Sunnyside Road. The Snell Rock is in that intersection. As a result, most of the fences are off about eighty (80) feet of what the actual deed lines are. It is shown in this annexation request that Mark actually does own beyond the fence line. He will own it until he quit claims it to someone else to solve only one of the problems. Generally in areas like this, it is going to have to be a quiet title action which would go to a court. When it goes to court, more than likely the court would adjust the property lines back to where the fences are and recognize the error. That can not happen until it is a judicial action. It basically would be an acquiescence, and the courts would recognize that historically the people have recognized the property boundaries as being the fences. Therefore, the court would then decree that the fences now do become the property lines. Until that happens, the property lines are where they come out based on the survey based on the section corner not on the Snell Rock. There is a lot of confusion of what is being used and what is owned. Basically what you are dealing with, as a planning board, is the actual deeded property. If the Whitings were to come in to request annexation of the sliver of ground that Mark is leaving out, the City could not annex it because they are not the owners even though they have used it, occupied it, and farmed it for their entire life. Mark is the only one that can request annexation of the strip because he is the owner, but he has agreed to leave it out of the annexation. To delay any decision until this is resolved, the Commission members probably may not live that long. The quiet title actions are usually a piece of property at a time rather than the entire area being taken care of. It has to be resolved by quit claim deeds exchanged by each property owner affected or the whole thing has to go into court. With as many owners as there are involved, it is extremely unlikely that it would ever go to court to resolve all of it at one time. The Planning and Zoning Commission is bound by the ownership of the deeded properties rather than the usage. Chairman Hunsaker added the southern boundary of the western portion is going to be the current deed line and not the current fence line. There was additional discussion to help clarify the issue on the property lines. . . Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting, June 4, 2002 - Page 4 Chairman Hunsaker called for additional questions before closing the public hearing. Elaine McGary opened a discussion on the difference in property taxes for properties annexed into the City and those that remain in the County. There was a clarification regarding what part of David Chamberlain's property is included in the annexation and what part is not. The Commission had a concern about whether or not annexation to the City is necessary in order to connect to the water and sewer. Engineer Manwill explained the County's policy concerning providing water and sewer service. It becomes a question from the City's point of view if we want these properties to go on a septic system and have roads developed which we do not have control over or do we care. Development of the surrounding areas was discussed. The public hearing was closed and the meeting was opened for Commission discussion. The Commission had concerns about the Chamberlain property and the road along the north of the Johnson property proposed for annexation. It was anticipated that the island of property on the north would probably be annexed at some time in the future. Leaving out Mark Johnson's property from the fence line to the deed line was a good move. There was concern about becoming involved with other properties that have boundary issues. . Dick Bybee moved to recommend to the City Council approval of the annexation with an initial zone of RP of the 26.62 acres as presented and shown on the map proposed for development as Cottonwood Hills Subdivision. Ron Folsom seconded the motion. There was no further discussion. Voting was unanimous in favor. The motion carried. . The next item of business was the Preliminary Plat for Cottonwood Hills Subdivision. Alan Cunningham of Mountain River Engineering explained the plat. Not much has changed except the fence line. He is waiting for a street name. Regarding the cul-de-sac, there will be a road stubbed out to the north. It was asked why not extend the road straight through the Chamberlain's property and go into the Mecham's property. David Chamberlain does not want a road going through where his house is. There is 280 feet where they could put a road with 110 feet lots. If you put in 110 feet deep lots by 100 feet wide, you have 11,000 square feet lots. When you compare the 11,000 square feet lots and the two-acre lots that Mark Johnson is trying to market and the lots in The Cottages, which are half an acre, it does not mesh with the continuity the developers are trying for. To extend the cul-de-sac further east, we are getting resistance from the property owners. Chamberlain has a nice home with landscaping and he has requested the road to end. As requested at the last meeting, a drawing was prepared to show how the property would interconnect to other subdivisions that are adjacent. Rex Coles' home or the Whiting's home have not been located on the drawing, so where that connects into Mason Street is not known if it will be physically possible. It is just a picture to show how this . Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting, June 4, 2002 - Page 5 will function on the basis of roads interconnecting into The Cottages, to Crowley Road, and to 21st Street. The only way this will happen is for the Whiting property to develop and the property to the north to develop. It is not known when or if this will happen. It shows how the long cul-de-sac would function until the property to the north develops, and it secures a road to the north. At the present time, the developer has not requested an OL-6 to allow the keeping of animals. The hearing notice did not include OL-6. If the developer wants to allow animals, he will have to come back to the Planning and Zoning Commission for another hearing. Chairman Hunsaker inquired, if the Commission said they could not have the long cul-de-sac even with road stubbed out, what about looping a road around the north, the south, the east, and the west end of this property? This would cause the property to be developed with a number of smaller lots. Other ideas were brainstormed. It would be difficult to stub a road out to the south because of the canal. . Greg Maeser moved to recommend to the City Council approval of the Preliminary Plat for Cottonwood Hills Subdivision with an initial zone of RP contingent upon the naming of the street when it is submitted as a Final Plat. Ron Folsom seconded the motion. Voting was unanimous in favor. The motion carried. A resident of The Cottages stated that she had attended the meeting to voice her concerns about the school situation. She has lived in Ammon for about six years, and she has small children. She has watched the schools. She knows that we have a new high school and we have a new junior high school. She has children coming up to the elementary school level. We have some very large subdivisions that have young families. She has heard that there are over a hundred kindergartners coming in during the next three years from one subdivision alone. She would like to know what plans are taking place or need to take place on the future development of an elementary school. The Commission members discussed the concerns. This is a School District issue. She also asked for information on the water issue in The Cottages. She can not plant her yard because of the water pressure. The developer and the City both needs to accept the responsibility to provide water for the properties annexed. The new well on the hill should alleviate the water problems. Public Works Director David Wadsworth addressed the water system. . Regarding the annexation of the Hillpoint Properties, which included Quail Ridge and The Cottages, there was a question about the width of the strip of property that does east from Crowley Road as shown on the zoning map. The strip was . Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting, June 4, 2002 - Page 6 narrow when the first public hearing on the request was held, but annexation was not approved. There was an adjustment to widen the strip for the second public hearing when annexation was recommended for approval. The legal description in the annexation ordinance confirms the width of the strip. The meeting was adjourned at 8:00 p.m. Chairman Minutes were recorded by Terri Scott and edited by Aleen Jensen Minutes approved . . . CITY OF AMMON PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION June 4, 2002 Minutes of the Public Hearing and Regular Meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission: The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tom Hunsaker at 6:30 p.m. in the City Building, 2135 South Ammon Road, Ammon, Idaho. MEMBERS PRESENT Tom Hunsaker, Chairman Greg Maeser Ron Folsom Elaine McGary Dick Bybee Cindy Donovan Doug Willden MEMBERS ABSENT Maxine Hardy, Vice Chairman Kevin Murray . CITY OFFICIALS PRESENT Bill Manwill, Engineer David Wadsworth, Public Works Director Terri Scott, Deputy Clerk The minutes of the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting held March 5, 2002, were reviewed. Greg Maeser had a couple of grammatical changes. Ron Folsom moved to approve the minutes of March 5, 2002, as corrected. Chairman Hunsaker noted an additional discrepancy. Page 2 shows that Rex Coles and Dennis Kiser live at the same address. Rex and Marjorie Coles live at 2643 South 45th East. Dennis Kiser lives at 2797 South 45th East. Greg Maeser seconded the motion with the corrections. Voting was unanimous in favor. Chairman Hunsaker opened the Public Hearing to consider the request for annexation with initial zoning of RP for 26.62 acres owned by of Mark and Aimee Johnson and David and Shawna Chamberlain. Notice of the Hearing was published in two issues of the Post Register. Also, notices of the hearing were mailed to property owners within five hundred (500) feet and to other interested parties. Chairman swore in parties in interest who desired to present testimony. . Alan Cunningham of Mountain River Engineering represented the developers to explain the request. This request was presented in March and there was some discussion on the property issue with the Whitings and Rex Coles. Mark's deed . Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting, June 4, 2002 - Page 2 line goes passed the fence line and the annexation request included to the deed line. The Whitings expressed concern. The developers have tried to be accommodating and not pass the fence line. The packet includes a map that shows how the legal description is contiguous with the City of Ammon in the southwest corner of The Cottages. Mark Johnson wants to annex into the City so he can eventually subdivide his property. The description includes provision for getting 90% of the water and sewer lines in the City. The request for annexation was denied in March because of the property issue and there was a question concerning the flood plain. The new FEMA map, which became effective April 2, 2002, shows that the property is in flood zone X. The notice to the adjacent property owners advised of the plan to annex this property, but it did not try to determine if they wanted their property to be considered for annexation. This annexation generates an island of property. Alan Cunningham oriented the Commission members to the ownership of the various properties. . Greg Maeser asked about the property to the east. It is owned by David Chamberlain, and it is basically farmland. Chamberlain's house is at the end of the Drive. A concern the Commission had at the March hearing was with the street. Is the street going to be widened and what is happening with the cul-de- sac? Alan Cunningham explained that would be addressed in the Preliminary Plat unless the Commission wants to it to be part of the annexation. Chairman Hunsaker stated that as long as Mark Johnson is comfortable with getting one but not necessarily the other they could be split. Another question is regarding the property line. The property line has been moved to the fence line. The actual description of what has been advertised is to the fence line. It is anticipated that Mark Johnson will eventually quit claim the property to the Whitings. There are a number of things that need to be cleaned up in this quarter section because of the Snell Rock issue. Mark's deed line still goes to the top line but he does not have any right to do anything with the property. He understands that, but on paper, which everyone is taxed on, his property goes to the deed line. Chairman Hunsaker called for testimony in favor of the annexation. The initial zoning asked for is the most restrictive. Details regarding the RP zone were explained. Dennis Kiser, 2797 South 45th East, asked about the zoning on the neighboring properties across Crowley Road. He was of the opinion that the property across Crowley Road to the south of Mountain Valley Estates (south of Mason Street) was zoned commercial. It is not annexed to the City of Ammon. Ammon's Comprehensive Plan land Use Map currently designates the area as low-density residential. . . Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting, June 4, 2002 - Page 3 Brooke Magleby, 5360 Lindee Lane, lives in The Cottages. She is in favor of the annexation. She sees that it would create several pockets of properties that would not be contiguous with City of Ammon. This is a concern of the city officials and they are trying to take care of it. It is a wonderful addition to the City of Ammon. In the long run it is beneficial, but she has concern about the pockets being created. . There was no additional public input. Engineer Manwill restated that the quarter section has had problems, which he has dealt with in working for Bonneville County. The problem came out because the fences and the properties were originally divided up based on where the existing road was. When the survey points came in, they found out the original survey point that John David put in is about eighty (80) feet to the south and a little east of the intersection of Crowley Road and Sunnyside Road. The Snell Rock is in that intersection. As a result, most of the fences are off about eighty (80) feet of what the actual deed lines are. It is shown in this annexation request that Mark actually does own beyond the fence line. He will own it until he quit claims it to someone else to solve only one of the problems. Generally in areas like this, it is going to have to be a quiet title action which would go to a court. When it goes to court, more than likely the court would adjust the property lines back to where the fences are and recognize the error. That can not happen until it is a judicial action. It basically would be an acquiescence, and the courts would recognize that historically the people have recognized the property boundaries as being the fences. Therefore, the court would then decree that the fences now do become the property lines. Until that happens, the property lines are where they come out based on the survey based on the section corner not on the Snell Rock. There is a lot of confusion of what is being used arid what is owned. Basically what you are dealing with, as a planning board, is the actual deeded property. If the Whitings were to come in to request annexation of the sliver of ground that Mark is leaving out, the City could not annex it because they are not the owners even though they have used it, occupied it, and farmed it for their entire life. Mark is the only one that can request annexation of the strip because he is the owner, but he has agreed to leave it out of the annexation. To delay any decision until this is resolved, the Commission members probably may not live that long. The quiet title actions are usually a piece of property at a time rather than the entire area being taken care of. It has to be resolved by quit claim deeds exchanged by each property owner affected or the whole thing has to go into court. With as many owners as there are involved, it is extremely unlikely that it would ever go to court to resolve all of it at one time. The Planning and Zoning Commission is bound by the ownership of the deeded properties rather than the usage. Chairman Hunsaker added the southern boundary of the western portion is going to be the current deed line and not the current fence line. There was additional discussion to help clarify the issue on the property lines. . . Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting, June 4, 2002 - Page 4 Chairman Hunsaker called for additional questions before closing the public hearing. Elaine McGary opened a discussion on the difference in property taxes for properties annexed into the City and those that remain in the County. There was a clarification regarding what part of David Chamberlain's property is included in the annexation and what part is not. The Commission had a concern about whether or not annexation to the City is necessary in order to connect to the water and sewer. Engineer Manwill explained the County's policy concerning providing water and sewer service. It becomes a question from the City's point of view if we want these properties to go on a septic system and have roads developed which we do not have control over or do we care. Development of the surrounding areas was discussed. The public hearing was closed and the meeting was opened for Commission discussion. The Commission had concerns about the Chamberlain property and the road along the north of the Johnson property proposed for annexation. It was anticipated that the island of property on the north would probably be annexed at some time in the future. Leaving out Mark Johnson's property from the fence line to the deed line was a good move. There was concern about becoming involved with other properties that have boundary issues. . Dick Bybee moved to recommend to the City Council approval of the annexation with an initial zone of RP of the 26.62 acres as presented and shown on the map proposed for development as Cottonwood Hills Subdivision. Ron Folsom seconded the motion. There was no further discussion. Voting was unanimous in favor. The motion carried. . The next item of business was the Preliminary Plat for Cottonwood Hills Subdivision. Alan Cunningham of Mountain River Engineering explained the plat. Not much has changed except the fence line. He is waiting for a street name. Regarding the cul-de-sac, there will be a road stubbed out to the north. It was asked why not extend the road straight through the Chamberlain's property and go into the Mecham's property. David Chamberlain does not want a road going through where his house is. There is 280 feet where they could put a road with 110 feet lots. If you put in 110 feet deep lots by 100 feet wide, you have 11,000 square feet lots. When you compare the 11,000 square feet lots and the two-acre lots that Mark Johnson is trying to market and the lots in The Cottages, which are half an acre, it does not mesh with the continuity the developers are trying for. To extend the cul-de-sac further east, we are getting resistance from the property owners. Chamberlain has a nice home with landscaping and he has requested the road to end. As requested at the last meeting, a drawing was prepared to show how the property would interconnect to other subdivisions that are adjacent. Rex Coles' home or the Whiting's home have not been located on the drawing, so where that connects into Mason Street is not known if it will be physically possible. It is just a picture to show how this . Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting, June 4, 2002 - Page 5 will function on the basis of roads interconnecting into The Cottages, to Crowley Road, and to 21st Street. The only way this will happen is for the Whiting property to develop and the property to the north to develop. It is not known when or if this will happen. It shows how the long cul-de-sac would function until the property to the north develops, and it secures a road to the north. At the present time, the developer has not requested an OL-6 to allow the keeping of animals. The hearing notice did not include OL-6. If the developer wants to allow animals, he will have to come back to the Planning and Zoning Commission for another hearing. Chairman Hunsaker inquired, if the Commission said they could not have the long cul-de-sac even with road stubbed out, what about looping a road around the north, the south, the east, and the west end of this property? This would cause the property to be developed with a number of smaller lots. Other ideas were brainstormed. It would be difficult to stub a road out to the south because of the canal. . Greg Maeser moved to recommend to the City Council approval of the Preliminary Plat for Cottonwood Hills Subdivision with an initial zone of RP contingent upon the naming of the street when it is submitted as a Final Plat. Ron Folsom seconded the motion. Voting was unanimous in favor. The motion carried. A resident of The Cottages stated that she had attended the meeting to voice her concerns about the school situation. She has lived in Ammon for about six years, and she has small children. She has watched the schools. She knows that we have a new high school and we have a new junior high school. She has children coming up to the elementary school level. We have some very large subdivisions that have young families. She has heard that there are over a hundred kindergartners coming in during the next three years from one subdivision alone. She would like to know what plans are taking place or need to take place on the future development of an elementary school. The Commission members discussed the concerns. This is a School District issue. She also asked for information on the water issue in The Cottages. She can not plant her yard because of the water pressure. The developer and the City both needs to accept the responsibility to provide water for the properties annexed. The new well on the hill should alleviate the water problems. Public Works Director David Wadsworth addressed the water system. . Regarding the annexation of the Hillpoint Properties, which included Quail Ridge and The Cottages, there was a question about the width of the strip of property that does east from Crowley Road as shown on the zoning map. The strip was . Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting, June 4, 2002 - Page 6 narrow when the first public hearing on the request was held, but annexation was not approved. There was an adjustment to widen the strip for the second public hearing when annexation was recommended for approval. The legal description in the annexation ordinance confirms the width of the strip. The meeting was adjourned at 8:00 p.m. Chairman Minutes were recorded by Terri Scott and edited by Aleen Jensen Minutes approved . .