11112010CouncilMinutes-WSCITY OF AMMON
CITY COUNCIL – WORK SESSION MINUTES
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 2010
AGENDA:
CITY OF AMMON
2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD
CITY COUNCIL AGENDA – WORK SESSION
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 2010 – 4:30 P.M.
DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1.Sports Complex (Russell)*
2.Review of Bonding Ordinance and Rockwell Development Appeal of Staff’s Denial of Building Permit in Woodland Hills,
Division #6*
3.Hitt Road – Target Traffic Issue Presentation (Sheriff’s Office)
4.Cloud Seeding Letter of Intent (Leslie)*
5.Misc.
MINUTES
City Officials Present:
Mayor Steve Fuhriman
Councilmember Brian Powell
Councilmember Dana Kirkham (arrived 4:57 p.m.)
Councilmember Lee Bean (departed at 6:30 p.m.)
Councilmember Rex Thompson
Councilmember Sean Coletti
Councilmember Russell Slack
City Attorney Scott Hall (arrived 4:45 p.m.)
City Clerk Leslie Folsom
City Engineer Lance Bates
City Planner Ron Folsom
City Treasurer Jennifer Belfield
City Officials Absent:
None
DISCUSSION ITEMS:
Mayor Fuhriman opened the meeting at 4:30 p.m. at the City Office Building located
at 2135 South Ammon Road.
1. Sports Complex (Russell)*:
David Hopkins & Jeff, from Utah, stated they are the land owners at the
corner of Curlew and John Adams. They have been in close contact with the adjacent landowners and would like to
talk about consideration of a 20 acre sports complex. They have had various discussions with members of the City,
as well as, Councilmembers. It has been indicated that there is some need for a first class sports place to draw from
the greater Idaho Falls area for regional tournaments. A multi-use facility can include a park and soccer and softball
fields, whose participants will eat and sleep in the local hotels. The revenue will come through tournament fees, etc.
Jeff stated he spoke with Ken as to how to generate revenues to fund the project. They asked what the City’s needs
would be and their participatory level and possible financing options. Total acreage was option 1) 20 acres, option
2) 10 acres, and option 3) 5 acres; which is the area they own. They want to meet the needs of the community, as
well as, generate some revenue to run this facility. This is meant to be an outdoor recreational facility. They wanted
to discuss the road that needs to be constructed and what the City can do to help prepare the road and the level of
interest from the City. Councilmember Slack said the concern is how it is built and who takes care of it. He’s not
sure what the City can be involved with this. Jeff asked about the road and any challenges. Councilmember Bean
said they have not discussed it for several years, since a large developer decided not to build. It’s always been the
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City’s policy that the property that fronts the road is put in by the developer. Councilmember Bean said he was here
to listen to what they had to offer. Jeff asked about Parks and Recreation budget and if the City was one of the lease
owners, then the use fees could go back to the City. Councilmember Bean said we have a small recreational
department that is handled well and we don’t have a need for additional facilities. He stated the YMCA handles
soccer and doesn’t feel the City would be interested in being a leasor of the property. He stated the tennis group is
looking for better tennis courts.
Councilmember Bean stated there is a need for what they are proposing, but not for the City of
Ammon. Councilmember Slack said we typically don’t put in the roads and our tax base is very low. The tax base
is a benefit, but also restricts being able to put in items the City would like. If the City has to expend our tax money,
he would have a hard time doing this. Councilmember Bean said if they were to develop their section of the road,
would the City be willing to develop the other sections of road on the basis of what it might bring to the City would
be a discussion the Council ought to have. He said if there are enough economic benefits to the City, then it would
be in order to look at the road. Council inquired if they have built facilities like this before. Jeff said they would
like to develop it, but find someone to own and operate it. Councilmember Bean asked them if they had funding.
Jeff said no, this is for the future. They want to just find out if this is a possibility. Councilmember Bean asked if
they could put in their side of the road or to the center line. Jeff said they haven’t discussed this. He asked if they
only need to do Curlew, would the City require them to put the rest in. Councilmember Bean stated no.
Councilmember Thompson said the last development was White Pines School and it was determined that there
would be no further development until Curlew and John Adams went through to handle the traffic. Curlew and John
Adams would have to be connected in order to get more development there. Councilmember Bean said the City
could LID the property, as well. Councilmembers Powell and Bean said they would love to have this facility.
Councilmember Thompson said an indoor soccer arena would do well. Leslie said the Ice Arena in Idaho Falls is
totally booked, so there is demand there. Councilmember Bean recommended that we put this on the next work
session to see what the City would be willing to do. Jeff thanked them for listening.
Councilmember Kirkham arrived at 4:57 p.m. Councilmember Bean brought Councilmember
Kirkham up to date on the discussion. City Planner Ron Folsom said there has been considerable discussion on the
Karchner property and development, which is how the sewer will get to there. IBSD can’t get anymore connections
from the City of Idaho Falls.
2. Review of Bonding Ordinance and Rockwell Development Appeal of Staff’s Denial of Building
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Permit in Woodland Hills, Division #6*:
Brent Johnson, 6030 S. 25 East, said they could probably work
with the Bank of Commerce for a letter of credit for the sidewalks in the asphalted areas of 25 lots. He discussed the
plat and would like to stay with the plat and develop it in stages. The cost to redo the plat would be $3000.
Councilmember Bean asked why they wouldn’t just replat. Councilmember Slack said with a smaller plat they
would need a smaller letter of credit.
City Attorney Scott Hall said the ordinance said improvement drawings for each subdivision or
division thereof. He wonders if it will be different cost wise if you take 30 lots, is it going to be any different to take
these 30 lots and call them 3 divisions. Brent said there are economies of scale. Scott said to look at the bridge and
take in those lots as one division. Brent said they are trying to minimizing the losses, since their budget is so close
and tight right now. Councilmember Slack asked if the City is going to change some of the wording on our
ordinance. He has done a lot of research on sidewalks with when, where or who, etc. After talking to other banks,
people say the issue is why you don’t allow them to get a letter of credit, to which, I have responded we would. The
problem is no one wants an area to be incomplete, including the banks. If the City keeps the ordinance, then you
need to see how you can meet the ordinance. Councilmember Kirkham feels everyone is fine with the ordinance.
Councilmember Bean said it is not necessarily to have all sidewalks in before the project it is totally complete, more
of a percentage of completion. It was discussed we are talking about the ordinance not the development agreement.
Councilmember Slack said if the developer has most of the property developed and they are just waiting to sell it
then the City wants the balance completed. Councilmember Bean stated the Development Agreement is governed
by the ordinance. Councilmember Kirkham said the ordinance says that if they are 80% complete and they have a
letter of credit or surety bond then it can sit for 20 years, if they want. Scott said the ordinance says they can do a
letter of credit, or bond or put it in up-front.
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Ron read the Development Agreement section that Council was discussing. “The developer hereby
agrees that upon finding that based on the sole discretion of the City Council duly entered into the official minutes
of the proceedings of the City Council that a portion or portions of the entirety of said utility or street improvement
as described in Item A above need to be completed. In the interest of health, welfare and safety….”
Councilmember Bean said the City has the ability to do this. Ron said from a developer’s point-of-view
they would probably want to do it also. Brent said he can see why the City did this when there have been areas with
a sidewalk here and there. Brent said the City is saying we have to replat to 5 lots with a letter of credit for $2000
per lot. Councilmember Powell asked what if the sidewalk gets damaged through the building of the house. Brent
said the builder usually pays to replace it and puts it into his cost. Councilmember Kirkham said the whole point of
the ordinance is to say that you cannot walk away with an incomplete project. She explained that we are hoping to
be covered, so we could complete the project, if the project was left incomplete. The City wants to be covered by a
letter of credit or bonding. Council discussed the issues between all the different options.
Councilmember Powell inquired how much a letter of credit costs. Councilmember Bean said it’s
usually 1 ½ to 3% of the amount of the line of credit. Councilmember Slack said you are looking at 2% of the
$40,000. Councilmember Powell explained the role of the City and how we have to protect our citizens with
ordinances. Councilmember Bean suggested Brent look at the bank and any minimums they might have.
Greg Hansen, 5699 Veil, inquired if it is possible to do this in phases. It was discussed there is not,
because it does not fit within the guidelines of the ordinance. Councilmember Kirkham said the City would have to
change the ordinance or break the law and the City isn’t willing to do either. Greg asked why the City isn’t willing
to change the ordinance to phases, versus plats. Councilmember Bean said you don’t change a good ordinance,
based on economics. Councilmember Kirkham said the reality of the problem is that we used to phase, and when
your final plat was recorded it fell into when the ordinance was in effect. You probably came in with the idea to do
it in phases, but we have changed it now. We don’t want to do business in phases now, because of past problems.
Greg said to take the sewer and water, for example, which works better is to take things in phases, why that
can’t happen for big developments as well. He said the only change you would have to make is to do it in phases,
than in entire plats. He stated they are willing to do it phases and it is better for the developer and the City. He feels
it promotes development and the City still gets its sidewalks. Councilmember Slack said the County Assessor’s
office has taken that property and made it agricultural for tax purposes, so you aren’t paying the taxes on that. He
asked what will happen when you start building on the ground will the County allow you to keep it as agriculture.
Greg said agriculture. Councilmember Slack said that is a huge benefit to you. You have no incentive to change it
from a large plat to small plats, because the County made the decision to give you a break. We are your last obstacle
for you to move forward.
Councilmember Bean inquired what it is zoned. It was discussed it is zoned right, but they are taxing
it based on use as agricultural land. Councilmember Bean stated that affects us if they are going to build on that.
Councilmember Bean stated he will contest it at the County. Ron said the problem is the land that is not asphalted is
being used as agricultural. Councilmember Slack said wouldn’t a smaller plat be beneficial for the taxes also. Greg
said he would still rather develop in phases and wants the Council to consider it. There was discussion over the old
method and new method of the Development Agreement (DA) and why the City moved to the new DA. Brent
stated he feels they are unique, because they had done work before the ordinance. Councilmember Kirkham stated
what matters is what is in writing, and they did not record the final plat, until six months after the ordinance was in
effect. Councilmember Powell inquired about the “philosophical difference” that Councilmembers Kirkham and
Thompson disagree on. Councilmember Thompson stated “division thereof” is in question. Councilmember Bean
stated when you plat a subdivision; you plat it by divisions, which is what we are talking about. Councilmember
Kirkham feels the new ordinance has been tried and tested. Ron said the ordinance is clear when they have to put
the sidewalks in. Scott said the developer could hand to the City $3000 for the sidewalk and not put it in until you
are ready and the City would give you the money. It is given at the time the permit is pulled. This is an option.
Brent said it is on the entire division. Scott said this is why you would divide this into divisions. Ron said it is
$3000 - $5000 per division. Brent said this is because a lot of the work has been done. Ron said they have to check
the pins, redo signatures, etc. Council feels this ordinance is going to stick. Brent stated he is concerned about
doing a few lots and then having it change. Scott said finding a good ordinance and sticking with it is the best thing
for the City. Ron said this is the most significant thing the Council has done and affected developers the most. This
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ordinance does not allow phasing. Scott said the subdivision is the entire area and the division is inside of it.
Councilmember Kirkham said it all depends on what is on the plat. It needs to be replatted to reflect the ordinance,
because it shows no divisions. Council concluded they are staying with the current ordinance.
Jay Johnson, 2125 Cabellaro, asked if they are saying to abandon the subdivision. He said there is
one subdivision and no divisions. You have to abandon the subdivision to come back and replat. Ron said if you
amend Division 6 and make it Division 8 & 9, whatever you don’t plat in Division 6 remains in Division 6. If you
replat a portion of Division 6 in another Division, then all lots that are not included in the new divisions are still in
Division 6. Jay said they could come in with 10 new divisions. Jay asked if he only has to bond, one division at a
time. Scott said yes, that is what the ordinance says. Council concurred. Councilmember Bean suggested to Jay to
do all the separate divisions at one time, for economics of scale. Scott talked about the assessor’s office and making
the land residential in pieces. Councilmember Powell explained it would be in their best interest to replat it. Leslie
explained that the County has a benefit of making land agricultural, so you have to farm it to keep the land fertile.
3. Hitt Road – Target Traffic Issue Presentation (Sheriff’s Office):
Paul Wilde, Bonneville County
Sheriff, 605 N. Capital Idaho Falls, stated the proposal was brought to them by the City of Idaho Falls Police Dept.
They are looking at all the accidents that are happening and the workload that goes with it. Paul passed out a map of
suggestions to try and figure out a way to stop the traffic from crossing with the left turns on the two intersections in
question. He talked about a “Jersey barrier”, to dissuade people from turning left or going straight. It is a concrete
barrier, where you will always have to turn right when exiting from Target and Albertsons. Council discussed U-
turn problems and people going around the barriers. There will be signs advising them and people behind them to
deter them. Councilmember Kirkham talked about the Target hotspot. She asked about the one by McDonald’s and
Albertsons and if it is also a problem. Council wonders what people do if they want to turn left.
Councilmember Kirkham asked how many accidents are in the McDonald’s area. It was discussed
there were 94 last year. Councilmember Kirkham said if you need to go left, you would have to go to the Jamba
Juice exit, which is a bad intersection too. Councilmember Kirkham said you will have to hit the road then make a
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U-Turn. Leslie asked about the previous suggestion of making the back of Target the front and using the 25 Street
light for this entrance. The canal bank would have to be partially covered. Councilmember Bean inquired about the
jersey barriers and if they were preformed. It was discussed they are.
Chief Steve Roos, 605 N. Capital, said the businesses in the Target strip will be the most upset with this
change. He said turn right, and then turn left moving through the area. The long term solution is the raised median
with actually dedicated turning lanes, which would allow a u-turn. Councilmember Bean inquired if people know if
they can do a u-turn. Can we sign it? It was discussed not to encourage everyone to do that now, until we get it
solved in the long-term. Councilmember Powell asked how many accidents are from those who are going straight
across. Steve said he doesn’t know. Paul said he had Kevin go in and talk with all the managers.
Michele Koplan, 2880 Stafford, representing Target said they feel there is something that needs to
happen, but there needs to be some more alternatives from engineers. Leslie inquired if they have looked at
changing their entrances. Michele said not as far as she knows. Target feels this change will be a negative to Target
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and clog up the Albertson’s section and force people into U-turns. Michele suggested extending 25 and moving
the traffic back behind the store, which will help both shopping centers. Council agreed with the idea. Leslie asked
if the managers are willing to contribute funds, to make the changes. Michele stated she does not know at this point.
Kevin Casper, Bonneville County Sheriff’s Office, said he talked with 100% of the business owners.
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Most of them realize there is a traffic problem and remembered the suggestions of changing 25 before the light
went in. Cory at Albertson’s said one of the customer complaints is getting out of the complex. Kevin said the
majority said their concerns is if this goes in, is that this would make the traffic stack at the Jamba Juice exit and it
will just create another problem. Kevin is concerned with the change that this exit’s accidents will increase.
Councilmember Slack suggested a one-way road out behind Target. He talked about a dead-end City road to hook
into the delivery area. Ron stated the City does not own all the property and discussed the exit only road.
Councilmember Bean stated we need to discuss what is on the table right now. We need to discuss other options
later. Councilmember Bean asked about the McDonald’s exit. It was discussed they need barriers there, as well.
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Councilmember Kirkham’s concern is actually taking traffic from one area and moving it to 17,which adversely
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affects our City. Ron said it will force people through Eagle Road, which also affects us. Councilmember Bean
inquired about a breakdown of specifics on the accidents. Paul stated it only went by section, not intersections.
Citizens are angry about that intersection.
Michele said she feels it is a Band-Aid effect and it pushes it to another area. Council discussed we need to
have discussions for long-term. Steve Roos said the reason for this short-term solution is, because it is dangerous
and he would like to prevent it. He talked about the better long-term solutions being a better idea, but for the interim
it is more important to save lives. He responded to businesses that business volume won’t matter when it comes to
saving people, property loss, etc. He stated he has no intention of moving forward, unless both Council’s move with
it. Councilmember Slack said he feels that Target said a lot of the accidents are when they are stuck in there turning
left. Councilmember Powell said he is concerned with transferring the traffic. Councilmember Kirkham feels you
are just transferring the hotspot areas. Councilmember Bean inquired about the difference between total events and
accidents. Kevin said the data is standard so engineers, etc. can read things from the reports. There are different
events for each accident. In this area there are more angle and head-on’s. Each accident will have a primary,
secondary and tertiary event in one impact. If you look at the Target exit you have to cross four lanes, two
oncoming lanes and two turning lanes and it is never agreed that you can turn left. Kevin said by today’s
engineering standards this wouldn’t have been allowed the way it is. It was discussed the medians are not a
foregone conclusion. Lance talked about the spacing between intersections will not allow another light. Leslie
asked about moving the exit down. Lance stated it will have to be a long way, which will make it too close to the
next light. Council discussed the issue at hand.
Councilmember Kirkham asked how much it will cost for the barriers. Lance stated about $2-3,000
apiece. The sheriff’s office said they will take care of the expense. Kevin said for every accident the people quit
going into the mall, during the issue. Councilmember Kirkham said her number one concern is shifting the cars to
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the 17 Street exit and how do we avoid it. Councilmember Kirkham stated they would pay for the barriers.
Michele asked what analysis is there on this. She inquired about any studies for concrete facts. Councilmember
Powell talked about if an accident happened, how it would affect their business. Target would just like an educated
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approach. Lance said this study was done in 2004 for Hitt Road and 17 Street. Most of the answers were right turn
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only. The intent is to reduce accidents. Councilmember Powell asked what do what we do with the traffic on 17.
Lance said you won’t know, until you try something. Councilmember Kirkham said this is Michele’s concern.
Councilmember Kirkham is concerned about losing business for the Albertsons shopping center. Councilmember
Slack inquired about the impact it will have to Target if it changes.
Michele said people will change their pattern. She is concerned about the accidents, but wonders if
this is the best solution. She would like more clarity for alternative solutions. She would like to see a timeline or a
task team. She will be happy to create a task team to brain storm for 2012. Councilmember Bean asked what would
happen if we closed the left turn lane into the mall and right turn lane from Target and have those two become a
holding lane. Councilmember Bean would like to find some type of alternative. It was discussed that Idaho Falls is
not impacted like Ammon is. Councilmember Bean excused himself from the meeting. Councilmember Slack said
why can’t we change the mall and McDonald’s, but leave Target as it is, for now. Kevin said there are more
accidents at Target, than McDonald’s.
He talked about the stop lights affecting the accidents. Councilmember Slack inquired about
alternating the stop light timing. Steve said they have done what they can, so far. Lance talked about the difficulty
of changing the lights. Leslie inquired about shutting off lights for a set amount of time. Lance stated you can, but
it still can be a problem. Michele said the lights are totally off and exactly opposite and feels that it might help to
take a second look. Councilmember Slack talked favorably about McDonald’s and the Mall, but not in front of
Target. Councilmember Thompson feels we need to do something and proposed changing all the exits.
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Councilmember Powell is concerned about 17 Street. Councilmember Coletti stated this is a temporary fix and to
not get comfortable with it and to revisit it very soon. Councilmember Kirkham agrees with Councilmember
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Coletti, she is concerned with 17 and once we decide the temporary solution works, we will never go to the
optimum solution and we will just stay with the interim one. Steve said can’t we construct the raised divider right
now and it would be $200,000 as opposed to the turn lane at $1.2 million. He doesn’t feel this will stop the major
concerns. Council is willing to try it for six months and access its effectiveness with traffic reports and compare the
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data. Councilmember Powell asked Kevin his feeling about 17. Kevin said after Dec 26 he can give the Council
Council Minutes 11-11-10 Page 5 of 6
an answer. He likes the six months idea. Councilmember Powell asked how soon they can get this done. Steve said
before Black Friday. Ray asked about a sign saying that if they turn left, you will expect delays. Councilmember
Kirkham stated people most likely will think it won’t affect them. It was discussed to see if we can take it away, if it
doesn’t work. It was discussed to publicize it well. Michele said this time line is their bread and butter and would
we rather try this in January, when traffic is slowed down. The sheriff talked about trying to protect lives and
especially during the height of shopping season. It was discussed Target themselves blocked it on one Black Friday
in the past. Council says yes, but we really need to monitor it and have timeframes to revisit this. It was discussed
to have it on the next agenda for a decision. It was inquired how fast they can be put into place. It was discussed it
does not need a vote. Council agreed. It was discussed it would take a few days. It was discussed who controls
what between the Cities of Idaho Falls and Ammon. Michele asked if they can be installed, at a time of day, when
business is closed. Steve is unsure. Lance said it will take a few hours, but each intersection won’t take that long.
Lance said it is the best he has seen for a short term alternative. Council stated to have them go ahead with the plan.
Kevin introduced Deputy Joey Martin and Deputy Fitch as new officers for the Ammon force to the
Council.
4. Cloud Seeding Letter of Intent (Leslie)*:
City Clerk Leslie Folsom explained that we have done this
in the past, but they have not asked for funds for a while, until this year. Other cities, such as Idaho Falls, are
committing to $5000. This has not been budgeted for. Council decided to contribute $1000 for this year, since it
wasn’t budgeted. Leslie stated it was alright to keep it under the general budget, rather than proprietary funds, since
they are struggling.
5. Misc.:
Lance presented the snow proclamation rules. Councilmember Kirkham said Guy Blistner
would like to talk about the school zones and the plowing around the schools. He would like to meet at 4 p.m. on
Tuesday. Ray said the City is leasing equipment to make clearing the cul-de-sacs easier, since they are smaller.
Arterials and collectors will still get priority. In the cul-de-sacs, they try to carry a lot of the snow to the neck.
Councilmember Powell asked if Ken is working on the stakes in the parks. Councilmember Slack said Ken
is working on it and they should be fixed this week or next. Councilmember Kirkham said the untrimmed trees
blocking the stop sign were one of the letters he had sent.
Councilmember Coletti asked about the water turn on and off rates. Lance said staff was going to
look at it. Councilmember Kirkham talked about the sanitation for businesses needing to be changed. Leslie stated
they think they have a solution within our current laws. She explained she created a different rate structure that
would need an increase in rate. She would have the associations or legal entities set up a billing entity and she will
send one bill at the current dumpster rate, to which, the association or legal entities can separately bill the group
according to the method they want. The City would not be involved at that point. Councilmember Kirkham asked
how soon it can happen. Leslie said by next week. They have to have an association, landlord or billable entity for
it to work.
Councilmember Slack motioned to adjourn the meeting. Councilmember Coletti seconded. Roll Call
Vote: Councilmember Slack – Yes, Councilmember Coletti – Yes, Councilmember Thompson – Yes,
Councilmember Powell – Yes, and Councilmember Kirkham – Yes.
The meeting adjourned at 7:10 p.m.
_____________________________________
Steve Fuhriman, Mayor
__________________________________
Leslie Folsom, City Clerk
Council Minutes 11-11-10 Page 6 of 6