11202008CouncilMinutes.docx
CITY OF AMMON
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2008
AGENDA:
CITY OF AMMON
2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD
CITY COUNCIL
AMENDED
AGENDA
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2008 – 5:30 P.M.
(NOTE EARLIER TIME)
CALL TO ORDER:
Mayor Bruce Ard at 5:30 p.m.
Pledge of Allegiance – Councilmember Waite
Prayer – Councilmember Kirkham
MINUTES:
November 6, and November 13, 2008
ITEMS FROM MAYOR:
Judicial Confirmation for Sewer System
CONSENT AGENDA:
Business License
Accounts Payable – Exhibit A
ITEMS FOR/FROM TREASURER:
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
None
PUBLIC COMMENT REGARDING ITEMS NOT ON AGENDA:
ACTION ITEMS:
1.Fiber Network for the City (Patterson/Powell)
2.Ted Hendricks Contract for Sewer/Water (Mayor)
3.Approval for Test Section of Pipe for the City Region System (Mayor)
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4.2 Amended Plat, Division 1 - Ammon Park Center
5. Quail Ridge Road Acceptance (Kirkham)
DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1.Input on City Code Proposed Changes (Ron)
2.Misc.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
1.Potential Litigation (Bean)
MINUTES
City Officials Present:
Mayor Bruce Ard
Councilmember Dana Kirkham
Councilmember Lee Bean
Councilmember Brian Powell
Councilmember Randy Waite
Councilmember Rex Thompson
Councilmember D. Ray Ellis
City Attorney Scott Hall
City Clerk Leslie Folsom
City Treasurer Jennifer Belfield (arrived 7:30 p.m.)
City Planning Director Ron Folsom
City Engineer Lance Bates
City Officials Absent:
None
11-20-08 Council Minutes Page 1 of 9
Mayor Ard opened the meeting at 5:30 p.m. at the City Office Building located at 2135 South Ammon Road.
Councilmember Waite led the Pledge of Allegiance and Councilmember Powell offered a prayer.
MINUTES:
November 6 – Councilmember Ellis motioned to accept the minutes as presented.
Councilmember Powell seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Ellis – Yes, Councilmember Powell – Yes,
Councilmember Bean – Yes, Councilmember Kirkham – Yes, Councilmember Waite- abstained due to being absent
for this meeting, and Councilmember Thompson – Yes. The motion passed.
November 13, 2008 – Councilmember Waite motioned to accept the minutes as presented. Councilmember Ellis
seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Waite – Yes, Councilmember Ellis – Yes, Councilmember Thompson –
Yes, Councilmember Powell – Yes, Councilmember Kirkham – Yes, and Councilmember Bean – Yes. The motion
passed.
ITEMS FROM MAYOR:
Judicial Confirmation for Sewer System: Mayor Ard let the City Council know it
was approved by the judge for up to $20 million.
CONSENT AGENDA:
CITY OF AMMON
BUSINESS LICENSE CONSENT AGENDA
Thursday November 20, 2008
License applications, carrying the required documents, pending approval of the City Council:
GENERAL BUSINESS LICENSE 2008:
1.NEWGENERAL BUSINESS LICENSE APPLICATION:
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A.Kingman, Andrea - Daycare Employee/Sunny Days Daycare – 4366 E. 17 St.
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B.Jones, Karen M. - Daycare Employee/Sunny Days Daycare – 4366 E. 17 St.
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C.Colson, Rebecca – Daycare Employee/Sunny Days Daycare – 4366 E. 17 St.
2.RENEWALBUSINESS LICENSE APPLICATION:
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A.Born, Sandy - Daycare Employee/Sunny Days Daycare – 4366 E. 17 St.
HOME OCCUPATION PERMITS 2008:
1.RENEWAL HOME OCCUPATION PERMITS:
A.Patentability, Inc. – E-Commerce – 4016 Journee Circle
B.Nicholas, Camille & Lemons, Tandy – Daycare – 700 Tennis Court
LIQUOR/BEER/WINE WITH GENERAL BUSINESS LICENSE 2008:
1.NEW LIQUOR/BEER/WINE WITH GENERAL BUSINESS LICENSE:
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A.Arellano, Jessica – Bartender T.G.I. Friday’s – 2665 S. 25 E.
2.RENEWAL LIQUOR/BEER/WINE WITH GENERAL BUSINESS LICENSE:
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A.Mecham, Laura L. - Bartender T.G.I. Friday’s – 2665 S. 25 E.
Business License: Councilmember Kirkham motioned to accept the consent agenda as presented.
Councilmember Powell seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Kirkham - Yes, Councilmember Powell - Yes,
Councilmember Thompson - Yes, Councilmember Bean - Yes, Councilmember Waite - Yes, and Councilmember
Ellis - Yes. The motion passed.
Accounts Payable – Exhibit A: Jennifer advised the Council that the auditors will be making some
adjustments but the budgets are pretty good. Councilmember Bean asked about a bill from Mountain River
Engineering in the street department budget. Lance said it was for the additional right-of-way from Ammon Road
out to Crowley and what it would take to get out there. Councilmember Bean asked about the payments on
Progressive Irrigation since they keep mounting up for us year after year. He explained if we aren’t going to be able
11-20-08 Council Minutes Page 2 of 9
to do anything with the ground rights, we may as well as get rid of the water rights and set up some kind of sinking
fund. Ron said he doesn’t think there will be an answer until there is some kind of ruling on surface rights. Ron
said it’s pretty cheap for the amount of water we get. Mayor Ard suggested maybe looking at leasing it.
Councilmember Ellis stated he talked to Senator Mortimer on it and he feels there is some movement on it. He will
talk to him some more.
Councilmember Bean motioned to approve the accounts payable as presented. Councilmember Waite
seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Bean - Yes, Councilmember Waite - Yes, Councilmember Ellis - Yes,
Councilmember Powell - Yes, Councilmember Thompson - Yes, and Councilmember Kirkham - Yes. The motion
passed.
ITEMS FOR/FROM TREASURER:
Jennifer had nothing to present.
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
None
PUBLIC COMMENT REGARDING ITEMS NOT ON AGENDA:
ACTION ITEMS:
1. Fiber Network for the City (Patterson/Powell):
Bruce Patterson introduced Mr. Peterson and his
background for computer networking. Bruce stated he hoped that the Council will adopt a broadband policy to state
what the City’s position is as a Municipal Broadband Network and move forward with a feasibility study. First, he
would like to establish whether the City should belong in the broadband business. Bruce inquired why we are in for
the water, sewer and garbage business. The Council said it’s a necessity for the health and safety of the City’s
individuals. He stated then the question we should ask ourselves is if broadband is a basic essential service. If it is,
then it is a role for the city government. He feels based on the world we live in today, broadband is a necessity.
Councilmember Kirkham asked is it safe to say if we don’t provide it, someone else will. Bruce said he can’t say
that it is safe to say. He explained there is an enormous discrepancy of what communities pay for the service. The
City of Ammon is a rural community and we will probably always lag behind and the price will be unbearable and
businesses, looking for an area to expand in, are going to count us out.
Bruce gave an illustration if you look at UPS, FedEx, and DHL and if they all had to build their own roads
that would be crazy but broadband is no different. There is enormous redundancy and no one will attempt to try and
do it and municipalities need to force it to be happening. He is not asking if we should pay for it, he just wants to do
a feasibility study to see if it will fund itself. Councilmember Kirkham asked why we want it. Bruce stated for the
same reasons why you we have sewer, water and garbage. You are protecting your right-of-ways and infrastructure
to dig up roads and poles. We provide the lines and tell services they can come in and provide the service. This will
push the price down and provide universal access.
Councilmember Bean inquired what fiber optics is. He would like to know who do they benefit and
who uses them. Bruce Patterson explained broadband means the size of the pipe you are pumping information
through. He explained it is a “gold standard”. Bruce passed around the cables that broadband would travel through.
It uses light instead of electricity to transmit data. It does this at a speed at thousands as times faster than copper.
He talked about DSL and cable and that DSL is about 1.5 megabyte and cable is about 5 megabytes. Cable is still
trying to get their network to work faster both up and down. He explained the City building has 5 megs. He
explained a lot of communities are going this way and there is one in Utah and their goal is to provide 30 megs for
phone, internet and TV and it was in litigation but has now been released. Brian said his brother has a 20 meg
connection for $30 including phone. Bruce stated we pay $200 a month for 5 meg. Councilmember Bean asked if
the City would be the service provider. Bruce said no, we will be just running the fiber and providing the service
providers a way to go into the homes.
Bruce said we are hoping to pay to do meter reading with this network and other utilities can use it for
meter reading. Bruce said the lines would be ours and we would be responsible for the trunk line. Mayor Ard
asked if we have it in our project. Bruce said yes it is covered and it might go into the contingency fund.
Councilmember Bean inquired what the City of Idaho Falls has done with their fiber optics. Bruce said they had an
electric utility that bankrolled it and they are paying that back. He explained they are basically catering to
businesses. They lease two strands and the ISAP taps in and runs their own equipment. He explained their model
with physical leases.
11-20-08 Council Minutes Page 3 of 9
Bruce said we want to look at giving them bandwidth. He stated we are talking about a formation of
an entirely new utility. He explained it would be a multimillion dollar project. Scott stated that they are on fiber at
this time and he pays $245 per month. He stated they have 27 computers on it and it is blazing fast.
Leslie gave the example of her sister who wants to put in Cable after Dish Network. She has been advised
that she will need to run a new wire and tear up her house when the existing cable would work but the companies
won’t share their wires. Councilmember Ellis said that there is legislation with Qwest and Cable One about sharing
poles and wires. Bruce said there is recognition from the cities that there is a problem. It is really about control of
what is in our community and protecting it. We would like to prove that it will pay for itself. We can’t make money
but there are cities that take funds to improve the roads since the lines go through the roads.
Mayor Ard stated we don’t own any poles. Bruce said we will have to negotiate with Rocky Mountain
Power and if they will use our fiber to read their meters. This is all part of the feasibility study. Councilmember
Kirkham asked what the cost of the feasibility study and is he willing to bring his own funds to do this study. Bruce
introduced Mr. Peterson who owns a private consulting firm and is willing to bring in his own funds to conduct the
feasibility study. He is pulling them from SRV.net that he helped to start up. He is asking for a memorandum of
understanding saying that we are partnering together for a feasibility study and a business model for a Municipal
Fiber Optic Network for the City of Ammon. Bruce stated the cost, for him, would be whatever it costs him in time
and travel to be able to gather all the information. Councilmember Bean inquired what the obligation of the City
would be beyond the feasibility study. Bruce stated we would have no obligation. He stated he drafted the
Memorandum of Understanding and would like Scott to look it over. Scott stated he rewrote the policy and gave a
copy to Council.
Councilmember Bean inquired about the costs. Bruce stated the feasibility study will show a projection of
the cost. He gave the Council some preliminary numbers. The current figures are $500 - $1500 per premise. That
puts us anywhere from $5 million to $12 million just to go past the house. To connect to the house, it would be
another $500 - $1000 piece. He stated if you are right in the middle, it will be about $8 million project.
Councilmember Bean inquired how much each person pays for phone, TV and Internet. Bruce stated he figures
about $100- $150 per month. We can push that price down and the service providers will pay us $40-$45 per month
per connection back. He explained he has nothing to back those numbers, however. Councilmember Bean asked
how we are going to fund it. Bruce said the feasibility study will look at how to fund it – we will explore every
option. Councilmember Ellis stated with 4000 connections we would be generating $4 million per year. Bruce
stated yes.
Councilmember Powell inquired if we punt on this and the private sector comes in, what we will be
paying. Mayor Ard said you are saying it will cost us less than $100 to do this – the residents will be paying the
providers and the providers will pay the City. Bruce stated Utopia is a business plan model that has already been
done. For $100 you get 30 Megs per second connection, cable TV through fiber optic network and phone with all
the perks. Bruce said we want to be neutral on the service connections. Robert Peterson said it will require
rewiring and you will use Ethernet cable into the house. Councilmember Ellis asked about 2 cap fives. Robert
stated that would handle it. Councilmember Bean asked how I run the phones if there are 5 connections. Robert
said an ATA will take a voice override, plug your telephone line on the outside and all your lines will work. He
explained there is device you can buy for cable to convert. Robert stated we can show you examples of how to do
these things. Councilmember Kirkham inquired if it is going to be reasonable. Councilmember Bean asked what he
is dealing with. Robert Peterson stated the grim reality is I’m going to go back 100 years ago and how many homes
had power. He explained yes, you will have to do some rewiring. Councilmember Kirkham said she thinks the
feasibility study is a no brainer. Bruce said their hope is that when the business model comes back it will be fiscally
responsible.
Mayor Ard asked if we have a way to identify users since many of the older people will say no way. Bruce
explained the goal is to try and get as many revenue streams as we can. Councilmember Powell asked
Councilmember Ellis how many homes would have Ethernet. Councilmember Ellis thinks less than 10 %, but he
pulls it into every room. Councilmember Bean doesn’t want to get any false hopes and if we have to bond, we have
to do what is best for the critical health and welfare to the City. Leslie inquired why we don’t require the Ethernet
at the time of home construction. It was discussed we would have to connect to someone on the outside, such as an
“island”. Robert said the City of Idaho Falls has built an island with Syringa networks to provide all kinds of
services. They are connecting all the upper education schools across the state and we will have a facility where the
service providers will bring their services to, then put in electronics. An example would be Microserv and be able to
serve your patrons. He would suggest that if you are successful, two of your providers would be Cable One and
11-20-08 Council Minutes Page 4 of 9
Qwest. Councilmember Ellis asked in regards to Intermountain Gas would that wire pick up. Bruce explained the
meter would be wireless to the box on the home. Robert stated just doing a meter read wouldn’t make sense.
This country is reaching a point to go green and they are talking about managing the power grid and the
reality is you want to get to tier one power which is cheap. Councilmember Powell asked Robert to explain content
delivery in 10 – 20 years. Robert explained, today you get 100-150 channels and when the commercial comes on
you start skipping commercials. The Internet comes on and you have YouTube - the whole method of entertainment
is changing. He explained with data, if you look at the difference and with high definition video there is a huge
difference in the volume of the traffic. 3 Megs will not be enough and there is not enough capacity in the core.
Councilmember Kirkham asked Bruce to address the District 93 component. Bruce explained Dist 93 is
currently under contract with Cable One and have to abide by it. He talked about Eray and it is a federal nobody
that wanted to run the lines between the schools. It doesn’t fund it so they basically bought the fiber and paid the
fees. They are going to be paying $100 per meg per computer and it will be an $8000 a month bill. They will charge
what the market what will bear and if they are the only game, the market is not limited.
Bruce asked the Council to keep their minds open. He explained community values with fiber optics
show that the property values are higher. He talked about two cities in Iowa. Waterloo was 169,000 and Cedar
Falls was 26,000. There’s no way to tell one community from the other. The smaller community decided to put
fiber optics in during 1996. In the years past, they found that Waterloo was stagnant and Cedar Falls was double
and the average wage was higher.
Councilmember Bean asked what will prevent this from coming back to not make it feasible. Bruce said if
Rocky Mountain doesn’t adopt a policy this would be a road block. He stated if the power company doesn’t buy
off, then we have problem. The reason we need a policy is to state that we view broadband as an essential part for
the community and it is a utility. The deal stopper will be Rocky Mountain Power and how to power the gray box.
He stated video will be another challenge. There are limited people who can provide this service and we would like
to bring TiVo to the community. He explained it will make it so you can select what you want and don’t have to
buy more than you need. He stated they would also probably solicit Google for our provider.
Councilmember Bean said he just wants a fair and independent study. Bruce stated he is passionate about it
but also wants to be confident about the numbers. He stated we don’t know how many will sign up and as staff he
will do his best to figure those numbers. Leslie asked what he sees regarding wiring in the future. Bruce stated fiber
will be just like our other utilities and may need upgrades.
Scott stated he received the policy brief and he took some time this afternoon to make the policy as
neutral as he could. He stated he is not familiar with this product, however. Councilmember Bean asked Scott if we
need a policy like this. Scott said yes. He thinks Bruce is right. He explained it is a sort of infrastructure for cities
to study. Bruce stated it will be challenged and he had already received a call from the Post Register. Bruce
explained the policy says that we believe we should consider looking at a utility to care for broadband. He feels we
need to state that and the Council will receive phone calls. Scott told Councilmember Bean he had the same concern
about being able to look it over longer. It was discussed they will need to review what Scott handed them.
Councilmember Bean would like to table this until the next meeting. Councilmember Kirkham said we all agree it
makes sense to go forward with the feasibility study, but they would still like to look at the paperwork. Bruce said
basically we are good in concept but we need to make sure the documents are acceptable. It was discussed the next
meeting would be 2 weeks away. Bruce stated he hopes it is neutral and feels this is a way to say that is basic
essential service.
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Councilmember Bean motioned to table the fiber network until the Dec. 4session. Councilmember
Kirkham seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Bean - Yes, Councilmember Kirkham - Yes, Councilmember
Thompson - Yes, Councilmember Waite - Yes, Councilmember Ellis - Yes, and Councilmember Powell - Yes. The
motion passed.
2. Ted Hendricks Contract for Sewer/Water (Mayor):
Ted Hendricks stated we met a couple of
weeks ago on a proposed contract. He said Scott has reviewed their proposed contract and Councilmember Kirkham
has asked for a schedule of anticipated payments. He explained Dave and Husk are here to give an update as well.
He presented the Council with a payment schedule. It was discussed there is not a conflict of interest with the
County because Dave Radford is on there and does not vote. Scott Hall said the scope of work and the monetary
amount is the Council’s decision.
11-20-08 Council Minutes Page 5 of 9
Councilmember Kirkham motioned to approve the professional services contract for ECIPDA and the City
of Ammon in the amount of $281,250.00 and authorize the mayor to sign the contract. Councilmember Powell
seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Kirkham - Yes, Councilmember Powell - Yes, Councilmember Ellis -
Yes, Councilmember Waite - Yes, Councilmember Thompson - Yes, and Councilmember Bean - Yes. The motion
passed.
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3. Approval for Test Section of Pipe for the City Region System (Mayor):
Brent Crowder, 350 N. 2
E., Rexburg, stated the documents they have are the same except the legal descriptions. Brent asked the Council if
they have any questions. Councilmember Bean inquired what they are. Brent stated they are the easements for the
property from the Eastern Interceptor for legal access to put the sewer lines in. Councilmember Ellis asked how
many do we have left to finish. Brent said they have about 5 and they will be done tomorrow. Councilmember Ellis
inquired if we have the right of ways obtained. Brent stated we are waiting for the people to sign the agreements.
Councilmember Bean inquired where it will bring the line to. Brent stated it will bring it to Sunnyside and Eagle
Road. Councilmember Ellis inquired about issues with easement on Ammon/Lincoln.
Dave Nowell, Forsgren Assoc., 3411 Sparrow Hawk, stated we can follow the right-of-ways to get over to
Ammon Road. He stated we just have to get the easements across. Councilmember Kirkham asked if they have
the easements across the Woodbury property between Township and Sunnyside. Brent stated the Regional
Authority is trading connection fees for the land values.
Councilmember Kirkham asked about the pipe. Brent said he has 1200 feet put in. Councilmember Bean
would like them to come to a work session instead of the separate sessions. Brent said that would make sense as a
Council. He would like to continue to hold the others and the work session. Ted said things are going to move
faster now. He stated meeting monthly probably isn’t too often now. Councilmember Kirkham asked about the test
line and how will it address the longevity of the material. Brent doesn’t have any problems with the longevity.
Councilmember Bean asked what size the pipe is. Brent said 48 inch and he will use this pipe if it tests out.
Councilmember Bean inquired with that size of pipe, is there a concern to maintaining its shape. Dave said 48 inch
pipe is not new. Dave gave some background as to where we are and the main reason we are looking at the option is
due to the costs. The cost is $160 per foot. He stated we weren’t looking at this pipe three years ago and now need
to look at this pipe to stay within budget. The manufacturer is trying to break into the sanitary sewer line field. The
reason we need the test session is that there is over $4 million in savings. Mayor Ard said one of the concerns at
Council is not a worry with the pipe but the connections. Dave believes these pipes have the right connections.
They use double gaskets with two rings around the pipe and they haven’t had any problems since they started doing
this the pipe. It is rated at 15 PSI air rating which is well above DEQ requirements. On paper it looks fine with 100
years of life, but we want to do the test session. If you get deformed pipe bells, then you will not have a good seal
and this is what we want to prove. Stiffness modules are used on PVC pipe which means if you were to use 46
pounds on top of that pipe, it would deflect 5%. The 5% deflection will still allow the gasket to seal. The Duramax
pipe is rated between 25 and 28 and is not near as stiff and you have to get the bedding secure so the soil will hold it
in shape. Councilmember Bean asked where the test section is. Dave stated it’s on Country Club road. He stated
they didn’t want to waste money on the project and the first section will be used in the project. Councilmember
Ellis said another advantage is that we can get the pipe 60 feet long, but the downside is they are digging trenches 30
feet deep and have to have trench boxes to protect workers. Leslie asked about the soil shifting. Brent stated that is
why it has to have proper bedding. Brent stated they gave DEQ an initial design and it has been approved. Dave
said the local people are really hungry for business. He talked with Willy at DEQ and Willy stated if the amount
was under $100,000 he would support moving forward without an advertised bid. We could then go with Topacco
who has experience with this size of pipe. Duramax and Forsgren will have someone on site at all times to verify
how much time and if it goes together. They would like to move forward on this but because of the discrepancy
between the Duramax ($90 per foot) and the SDR 35 ($160 per foot) and PVC line concrete ($265 per foot), they
felt they needed to come up with another product in the same price range of the Duramax. They have looked at a
couple of different pipes. They looked at the IN12 low pressure irrigation pipe, however, it is not sewer pipe. They
talked to Lance about it, but felt it was too risky. The next one they looked at was the Corp 21 pipe. It is a PVC
pipe with corrugated outside and the advantage is it uses the structural shape for its strength which brings the price
down. It is within a couple of dollars of Duramax. He stated however, this is the same pipe supplier that put the
pipe in on New Sweden but they have, pretty much, written them out because of earlier problems. However, he has
talked to them and they have changed companies where they get their product from and now feel they are a viable
option. They suggested doing a test section on both types. He talked about the stiffness of the Duramax and Corp 21
pipe and they have a stiffness of 50. They would like to design a 600 foot section to have them both put in. He feels
11-20-08 Council Minutes Page 6 of 9
it should be able to hold and to maintain its seal and it is a sewer pipe. Councilmember Bean said it would be 1200
feet with a manhole. Councilmember Powell asked how long it will take to do this. Dave stated by about the end
of January. Brent said it’s a manufactured price. Councilmember Powell asked what if the test fails. Dave says
you will go inside the pipe and fuse the joints together and if the PVC fails, then you will have to use caulking
material to caulk all the joints. Councilmember Powell stated, so regardless it will stay in the ground and we will
use it.
Councilmember Ellis motioned to approve two 600 foot test sections of Duramax and Corp 21 pipe for a
cost of approximately $225,000. Councilmember Kirkham seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Ellis - Yes,
Councilmember Kirkham - Yes, Councilmember Bean - Yes, Councilmember Thompson - Yes, Councilmember
Waite - Yes, and Councilmember Powell - Yes. The motion passed.
Ted said DEQ and the State requested the Judicial Confirmations for findings of facts and judgments.
The City should be getting the loan confirmation before Christmas. He has talked to Scott about doing other work
on it. They have budgeted through the Regional Authority to pay for Scott. Jennifer inquired about the invoices for
Scott. Ted explained Scott will be paid through the Regional Authority. He explained Scott is also the attorney for
the Regional Authority.
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4.2 Amended Plat, Division 1 - Ammon Park Center:
Ron presented the plat and explained it’s
located to the North of Anytime Fitness. The lot is actually split and this building will have the property line run
through the center of it. They are building it so he can sell half, if he wants to. Councilmember Bean said it is his
intent and his understanding is that there is a buyer for it. Councilmember Bean said one of the complaints with
Kohl’s was that the back of the building was facing the street. Ron said this one won’t be – it will be similar to
Legacy Park. Lance said these will be professional offices not a department store. Ron said Councilmember Ellis
is looking at all the site plans. Ron advised that Planning and Zoning approved it.
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Councilmember Bean motioned to accept the 2 Amended Plat, Division 1 – Ammon Park Center as
presented, subject to technical review. Councilmember Powell seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Bean -
Yes, Councilmember Powell - Yes, Councilmember Thompson - Yes, Councilmember Waite - Yes, Councilmember
Kirkham - Yes, and Councilmember Ellis - Yes. The motion passed.
5. Quail Ridge Road Acceptance (Kirkham):Councilmember Kirkham stated she was present at the
homeowner’s association meeting and they are concerned with what is going to happen with the park but they went
back to the improvement drawings and it just shows a drainage field. She explained Doug Crabtree is supposed to
be coming in to testify. Councilmember Kirkham inquired about accepting the roads. Lance stated there are a few
minor things they need to check on but he has the letter ready to go. There’s nothing in writing on the park and
they don’t want two acres of weeds. The other problem is that this land was supposed to be deeded to the City and it
never happened so now it’s in probate. The association wanted the City to go into a seven year plan once the land is
acquired to make a contribution to develop the park. Councilmember Bean inquired if the land was supposed to be
donated to the City. Councilmember Kirkham stated yes. Councilmember Kirkham said it was in the development
agreement initially for a fire house then we took the land for a well house. This land is no longer addressed, but it is
supposed to be deeded to the City. Ron stated that the city required the developer to install the sprinkler system and
to landscape before the City accepts the park. Councilmember Powell asked Lance when the road acceptance
should be done. Lance explained he hopes before the snow sticks.
Councilmember Ellis asked about a contract on a grader. Councilmember Bean said if it’s in the budget, it
doesn’t need to come back to Council.
Councilmember Kirkham feels the City can form a partnership. Councilmember Bean said this would be
fairly unique, since the developer should have put in the sprinkler and landscaping. Ron said it wouldn’t have been
addressed, since it was a fire station. Councilmember Bean asked if there was any more platting on this section.
Council said no. Scott said you could have a representative go to probate court, so we could get it deeded to us.
Scott said it is an outstanding claim that we have. Councilmember Kirkham said when the City was going to do it;
the deed/title search wasn’t clean. Lance said that was part of it and the other part was the functioning of the storm
water retention pond. Scott said they have to clear the liens. Ron said he could get the title company to check on it
and see if it is clear. Councilmember Powell said the weeds are 4 feet tall and it’s the entrance to the neighborhood.
Ron said Councilmember Kirkham is asking for the same arrangement as Woodland Hills. Ron said the lot in the
development agreement now has a house on it. Councilmember Bean asked what Councilmember Kirkham feels the
different responsibilities are from Council. Councilmember Kirkham stated we just need to maintain the grade,
11-20-08 Council Minutes Page 7 of 9
which is our only obligation. Councilmember Powell said there’s some serious talk going on with the homeowners
association to do something and feels they just want some cooperation from the Council. Scott’s recommendation is
to file a contingent claim authorizing them to get a representative to determine how to deed the lot over.
Councilmember Bean asked Ron to let him see the title search when he gets it. Lance said his concern is to make
sure it still functions as a retention pond.
Tom Hunsaker, Planning and Zoning, inquired about the actual size of the lot. It was discussed it was
originally 3 acres, but it ended up with a little over 2 acres. Ron thinks they probably owe us for a lot.
Councilmember Kirkham motioned to have Lance go ahead and address the punch list and bring the letter
of acceptance for the roads and have Ron do a title search on the two acres, so we can address the deeding of the
land. Councilmember Powell seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Kirkham - Yes, Councilmember Powell -
Yes, Councilmember Thompson - Yes, Councilmember Ellis - Yes, Councilmember Bean - Yes, and
Councilmember Waite - Yes. The motion passed.
DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1. Input on City Code Proposed Changes (Ron):
Councilmember Bean requested to look at them later.
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Councilmember Kirkham said put it on December 4agenda.
2. Misc.
Lance said that drilling Well #11 is impeded by too much water and they are working on getting it
solved with Rain for Rent to pump it. This will be a change order of approximately $2000.
Lance said the grader will be used to do a better job on our roads. Councilmember Bean asked if we
require a landscaping spot in front of the sidewalk and he feels we should, so the snow doesn’t get pushed onto the
sidewalks. Ron said most of the Rockwell Development’s have this. Lance said we have 300 hours on the
equipment and so many times per hour after this. Councilmember Bean wants some thought to do the landscaping
strip as a standard. Lance said it might push the right-of-ways farther. Councilmember Bean asked Ron to look into
this and see how it affects the front yard.
Scott asked Leslie about the administrative policy of Shawna’s. Leslie stated she received it and Shawna
is going to make the changes requested so Council can adopt it. Scott said we need to decide about the red flag
identity policy and when it will be adopted. Councilmember Bean will take the lead on it since it’s not due until
May.
Scott asked what we want to do on George McDaniel’s estate. Councilmember Thompson called Ron and
told him the Council wanted him to respond to the questions. Ron stated he did do that. Ron said one of the
questions asked if Bit of Heaven was in a subdivision and if most of it was done. In Quail Ridge there is a lot for the
fire station and well. The well has been dedicated and the other lot has a house on it. The bridge for the back part
of the Cottages has been paid. It was discussed to make sure that it’s in the audit. The Cottages bridge is okay for
the future. The drainage improvement hasn’t been dedicated. It was questioned if the irrigation piping onto the
Taylor property was done properly. It was mentioned that Mary Taylor called and said it was working, so we are
assuming it is working. He inquired if Grandview Estates was owned by George. Dove’s Landing was also
questioned and Ron does not know who owns it for sure. Councilmember Kirkham inquired about Quail Ridge #2.
Ron stated it is in with FDIC. Scott asked Council if they wanted Ron to get back with them. Council said yes.
Scott said they have started on a new agreement with Hawks Landing.
Councilmember Ellis said we are undergoing a design change on Well House #11 and we are rebuilding #8,
#9 etc. He inquired why not make them attractive by designing them the same for the community. Council
discussed this is a great idea.
Councilmember Waite asked Lance if Woodland Hills has to be dug deeper. Lance said yes it might need
to be 14 – 18 feet deeper.
Councilmember Thompson said they went to Tiebreaker Park and the road striping makes it look like they
can pass. Councilmember Thompson said it was done after the traffic study showed that most people were driving
down the center of the street. Lance said you could paint a double yellow line. They talked about crosswalks and
the City doesn’t want any unless they have a traffic guard. Councilmember Bean said the City was amicable to
work with them but the school district needs to step up. Councilmember Kirkham stated to Lance she was
wondering what the warrants would be to put in a flashing light on Tiebreaker. Councilmember Thompson said the
problem is there are parked cars and you won’t see the sign. Lance stated if you could get the kids to walk down to
and only cross at this one intersection, they would have some warrants. Councilmember Kirkham said this is why
they want to consider a walking school bus. We need one more pole at the corner of John Adams and Tiebreaker.
11-20-08 Council Minutes Page 8 of 9
Lance said the School District should do it. Councilmember Kirkham said this is the concession we made with Guy
Blistner. Mayor Ard said we could put a pole there. Lance will have them install one.
Councilmember Thompson wants to know the legalities of putting 100 people in one acre due to the cluster
of group homes. Ron said the question, for Scott, is if we have to allow them in a cluster, if we say this was not the
intent are we going to be in trouble?
The Cellar has added an 800 foot addition which is a grandfathered clause. Ron said they were allowed to
use the shadow line of the home. Leslie stated it did change the utility structure, however. She stated the office
needs to be aware of remodel situations.
Councilmember Powell asked Lance if he was going to put a pressure gauge on his house. Lance said yes
he will get one on. Councilmember Kirkham said the pressure is still high up in Quail Ridge.
Leslie talked about the temporary licenses. She would like something from Council, as far as the
exemption, for Christmas tree lots. It was discussed to let it go this year and talk about it for the future.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
Councilmember Thompson motioned to go into Executive Session for potential litigation in regards to
Section 67-2345 (1) (a) (j). Councilmember Waite seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Thompson - Yes,
Councilmember Waite - Yes, Councilmember Powell - Yes, Councilmember Bean - Yes, Councilmember Kirkham -
Yes, and Councilmember Ellis - Yes. The motion passed.
The meeting adjourned at 8:52 p.m.
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C. Bruce Ard, Mayor
__________________________________
Leslie Folsom, City Clerk
11-20-08 Council Minutes Page 9 of 9