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11132008CouncilMinutes CITY OF AMMON CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 2008 AGENDA: CITY OF AMMON 2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD CITY COUNCIL AGENDA – WORK SESSION THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 2008 – 4:00 P.M. DISCUSSION ITEMS: 1.Sensus Meter Flex Net Presentation (Lance/Bruce Patterson) 2.Daycare Ordinance Revision (Leslie) 3.Input on City Code Proposed Changes (Ron) 4.Community Center (Ken) 5.Strategic Plan Update (Dana) 6.Connection Fees (Ray) 7.Misc. MINUTES City Officials Present: Mayor Bruce Ard Councilmember Dana Kirkham (left at 5:30 p.m.) Councilmember Lee Bean Councilmember Brian Powell (left at 6:15 p.m.) Councilmember Randy Waite Councilmember Rex Thompson Councilmember D. Ray Ellis City Clerk Leslie Folsom City Planning Director Ron Folsom City Engineer Lance Bates City Officials Absent: None Mayor Ard opened the meeting at 4:17 p.m. at the City Office Building located at 2135 South Ammon Road. DISCUSSION IT EMS: th 1. Sensus Meter Flex Net Presentation (Lance/Bruce Patterson): This item was moved to the Dec. 11 work session. 2. Daycare Ordinance Revision (Leslie): Leslie explained that she has issues with Items A & E. She has discussed with Ron if the current legal interpretation was his intention when he wrote the ordinance and he stated it wasn’t. On Item E it states that if they have had any violations of a controlled substance then they can’t run a daycare. Scott Hall feels it is too strict. Councilmember Kirkham asked about when you are 16 or 17 and you did something stupid. She stated Scott said he would be comfortable with 5 years. On Item A she stated she doesn’t have a problem with moral turpitude or sexual misconduct but her problem is with the language of any felony or misdemeanor which poses a problem. Scott feels we should clarify it down tighter separating the turpitude’s etc. from the felonies/misdemeanor and make them 5 years. Scott just wanted to be sure the Council is on board and he will write the language needed. Leslie explained that if they have any sex crimes it will be a life sentence. Councilmember Ellis asked why we would put a year figure on it when they have paid their debt to society. Councilmember Kirkham asked what happens if they have had their record expunged. Leslie stated it doesn’t cause them harm if this is the case. Leslie gave an example of a recently refused application. The person who was running the daycare was clean but her husband had a DUI. He has satisfied all the courts requirements but under our law she has to turn the application down. She doesn’t want our laws to be written for one person who is good; she wants protection from the bad person. Ron stated the state draft does have time limits and most of the one in our 11-13-08 Council Meeting Page 1 of 6 ordinance came from an original state draft. Leslie stated her concern is that the courts are plea bargaining down even though the crime was severe. If we adopt the probation fulfillment, we could be allowing a bad situation. Councilmember Ellis said you are becoming a judge and jury. Councilmember Kirkham said the justice system is defunct. Everybody pleads not guilty then you go for a reduced sentence. Ron said we could put language in that says “5 years or such time as all court requirements have been satisfied”. Leslie suggested letting Scott create the language based on what direction the Council wants. Councilmember Kirkham said the Council believes in second chances and the Council doesn’t want someone to pay for the rest of their lives for a mistake but they want to make sure the wheels of justice have been served including a period of good behavior. Leslie will take this to Scott. 3. Input on City Code Proposed Changes (Ron): Councilmember Kirkham stated she hasn’t had a chance to get all the way through it. Councilmember Thompson inquired concerning 6-3-10 and asked for a clarification on the language. Leslie stated in reference to this, she investigated a daycare with a complaint of staffing. She had Bill check the staffing at 2:30 p.m. and they were above quota then she had them check again the next day at 12:30 p.m., during the lunchtime since she felt this could be a time of understaffing, and again they were fine. She will not be continuing to pursue this allegation since she feels it would be harassment of the daycare. Council is fine with her conclusion. Councilmember Thompson stated he would like “child over 18 months and under 4 years 11 months” and feels it would be better stated “child over 18 months and under 5 years”. Councilmember Kirkham suggested moving this to the Dec. work session since the Council has not had time to review it all. 4. Community Center (Ken): Ken explained for the past several months he has been working on the recreation center. He has been going to different cities looking at their centers and how they function. Randy and Ken went to the Nampa Center a few weeks ago. He would like to get a committee together and do some studying. He would also like to get a rendering of a possible design. Councilmember Kirkham asked where the City is on the funding part of it. She is concerned about forming a committee since it will start the excitement and this might not happen for three years. Ken stated the funding ideas are memberships, business, cable companies and a lot of citizens donating money. The Nampa Center supports itself off their buy in memberships. Councilmember Bean said he didn’t want to compete with Apple Athletics. Ken stated he doesn’t want to compete with them either. We are just trying to offer the City of Ammon residents a complete well being of living. Councilmember Bean asked Ken for a concept. Councilmember Kirkham said it would be better to be called a Recreational Center. Ken said you would have programs that entail a place you can go for meetings, workshops, basketball court, studios for dancing, indoor walking paths, programs before/after school, graduation night activities, etc. Ken said the membership would buy the use of the center. Councilmember Kirkham said you would pay a resident fee and a non-resident fee. She understands how the City will take care of the maintenance but how do we build it. Ken stated we are talking about $15 - $18 million to build a center of approx. 30,000-50,000 sq ft. Councilmember Kirkham asked how we will get the funding. Ken said hopefully we could get some donations and possibly bonding on it. We also belong to the National Park & Recreational Assoc. who also has some ideas as to the funding. Councilmember Bean asked why our citizens would vote for it, when Idaho Falls did not. Ken said the way it was presented is why it failed. Councilmember Kirkham asked are you still considering doing it as a district or with county money. Councilmember Bean said he feels you will have a difficult time getting $15 million for the center. Ken said they had $9 million and it passed. Councilmember Kirkham thinks there is a lot of support for it. Councilmember Ellis stated another option is partnering with school districts and possibly include a City library, at that time. Councilmember Kirkham said the school has so many needs ahead of this but they would pay a portion and then we would have to bond for the rest. Councilmember Ellis stated if they could pass a bond to pay for the facility and then we lease back a portion. Councilmember Kirkham stated she thinks they would want the reverse since they have so many bonds they have to do. Councilmember Bean said his concern is $7 million in road projects rather than a rec. center and is this more prudent use of borrowing power. Councilmember Bean said he would love to have a recreation center but we have higher priorities that we need. Councilmember Kirkham said if we bonded for roads, then it would open up money for the rec. center. Councilmember Bean stated no it wouldn’t. Councilmember Ellis said we get 38% of transportation dollars for local use and if the governor gets his extra money how does that affect us. A significant part of the road problems are local and county roads. Councilmember Bean said the funds barely keep up with the repairs. Lance stated that is correct. Councilmember Ellis said the formula would not change and AIC will support the governor. Councilmember Kirkham said she doesn’t want to discourage Ken from exploring his options and 11-13-08 Council Meeting Page 2 of 6 this is really important, however, Councilmember Bean has a point and we have to figure out the infrastructure. Ken said he would like a committee to help come up with a conceptual drawing. Councilmember Ellis said he would be happy to meet with Ken for a conceptual drawing. Councilmember Bean asked if there was no way to partner up with Idaho Falls. He would like to see the area with one very nice rec. center and would like to see the City do it on a joint level with Idaho Falls and the County. Ron said if Idaho Falls does it they will look at Taylor’s Crossing which is not even close to Ammon. Councilmember Kirkham asked where they were on the event center. Councilmember Ellis said they are still looking at it but they want it downtown which would need underground parking. Councilmember Kirkham asked Ken to be patient for the Council to work out the strategic plan and work through the infrastructure. Hopefully in a year he can put together a committee. 5. Strategic Plan Update (Dana): Councilmember Kirkham said she was going back over the assignments and we have made progress on a lot of them. Councilmember Kirkham asked the Mayor where we are at with Dean Mortimer and the City Center. Mayor Ard stated he had the letter. Councilmember Kirkham asked what the reservations are for not sending it. Councilmember Thompson said with the economy as it is. We have a building now that works for us and he doesn’t know what 3-5 years will do. Councilmember Kirkham said her interpretation of the letter is that we are willing to explore the option. Councilmember Powell stated we would be trading buildings. Councilmember Ellis stated Councilmember Bean’s reservation is that he doesn’t want to get rid of the building. Councilmember Ellis is ok with keeping the building. Councilmember Powell stated he is in willing to look at leasing a building. Councilmember Kirkham stated if Dean gets ready to sell it, then we would be first in line. Councilmember Bean doesn’t want to get Dean Mortimer’s hopes up. Ron stated Dean said he was revising the master plan for the City building. Councilmember Bean wondered if it was legal for a City to sell the building and lease it back. Councilmember Ellis said we would want to lease it only one year at a time due to the Boise versus Frasier case of not occurring debt longer than one year without a bond. Councilmember Kirkham said the concept would be a back-to-the-future town square. Ron showed the Council the letter the Mayor had in his possession. The Mayor said it says purchase. Councilmember Bean said the first sentence does commit the City and he doesn’t feel this is what we wanted. Councilmember Kirkham said she feels he deserves a response and would like a letter sent to him saying we are interested in the concept. Ron said he will draft it and have Scott review it. Councilmember Bean asked if we need to do it in writing. Councilmember Kirkham said yes. Councilmember Ellis said we did vote in Council to have this sent. Councilmember Ellis said we need to tell him we don’t see it in the strategic plan for 4 – 5 years and does this meet his needs. Councilmember Powell said you don’t know if he is using it as an advertising plan. Councilmember Bean stated he likes the idea of someone building it and the City leasing it back. Councilmember Ellis stated Idaho Falls is pursuing clarification from the Supreme Court as to the Frasier case. The City of Idaho Falls needs to be able to negotiate to buy power wholesale from Bonneville Power for a 17 year contract and with the Frasier case they cannot do this. Councilmember Kirkham asked Ron to redraft the letter and have it available to Council on the next meeting for review. Councilmember Kirkham verified with the Council on impact fees that the Council is not looking at the fees. The Council concurred. Councilmember Kirkham asked Ken if he has a map as to where you see the parks in the City. The Council would like a map, so when land is brought in to be annexed they can make it part of the agreement and be consistent. They would like a better vision than the comp. plan. They would like it to show which is the Community Park, etc. Ken asked Councilmember Kirkham when she would like that. Councilmember Kirkham asked to have it by Jan. or Feb. th Councilmember Bean asked who could meet Steve Kent on Nov. 25 Tuesday 4 p.m. Leslie will set this up as a special work session. Councilmember Bean said Steve Kent would like more input from the Council on the level of protection the Council would like to see. Kent said to plan on two hours. Councilmember Kirkham said she is renegotiating the contract for the next year. She has talked with Sam and he said he would get last year’s contract over to us this week. Councilmember Kirkham couldn’t remember what the rental ordinance was. Ron said that he has ideas and is working on it. 11-13-08 Council Meeting Page 3 of 6 Ron stated the flood plain is still progressing. Jerald has the hydrology study done and they are working through the results. Lance stated the storm water design is still wrapped up in the flood plain. The City is making commercial lots retain 1.3 inches per hour as the designed storm event. He is recommending going to underground systems. Subdivisions with underground storm water release to a historic drain way. We haven’t had any subdivision propose a storm water system. There are options for their storm water, which is basically underground. When we do have an open basin, they are shallower and we would make them put in a French drain. Councilmember Bean asked what is happening on Walgreens. Councilmember Ellis said the water line is not stubbed where they thought it was. Councilmember Ellis asked Lance if they were supposed to be tapering it. Lance said you won’t be able to see a whole lot. Ron said Dean feels they should put some French drains in. Councilmember Bean asked if there wasn’t supposed to be a letter addressing it. Lance said Scott was supposed to be drafting a letter. Leslie asked if Scott has drafted the letter. Ron responded if Lance would call Dean and send a letter to Walgreen’s. Lance stated he will do it. Ron said it was Benton’s water line design that wasn’t there. Councilmember Kirkham asked why we wouldn’t want to use Idaho Falls policy. Lance said we are following their policy on the calculations but beyond the calculations they don’t have hard and fast requirements. Lance stated he would like to refine it more, which is basically side slopes 4 to 1. Councilmember Kirkham said she would like Lance to create a policy on it. Councilmember Kirkham said maybe Councilmember Ellis could work with Lance and take the storm water design and make the necessary attachments to it. Lance said we can do that. Lance stated there will be a significant cost increase for underground storage. Mayor Ard said our water is pretty sparse. Lance stated just to be able to store the water is immense and it will kill a lot of projects. Councilmember Kirkham stated she wants what he is consistently requiring at this time. Leslie asked about the French drain problems in and Stonehaven and the French drain not working. She stated to Lance and Council that there might be some concern using French drains in the future. Lance said some of the French drains have not been maintained which is plugging them up. Lance stated French drains are difficult since they are underground and you have to dig them up to repair them. Leslie stated this is what concerns her. Lance said we need to have sediment storage beneath the catch basins and below the outlet of the pipe. Mayor Ard said if they don’t get cleaned regularly they will still do the same thing. Councilmember Kirkham asked about the personnel policy manual and where it is at. Leslie stated she and Bruce Patterson have not had time to work on it but hope to have it done by December. Councilmember Kirkham asked if we are interested in a strategic plan for the future and if we need to outsource it. Councilmember Ellis says he thinks the Council can do it. Council concurred. Councilmember Ellis said we just need to put a time table to it. Councilmember Ellis asked if we are going to be taking over our own sewer maintenance or if it will be handled by the Regional Sewer District. Councilmember Bean said he would like the Regional Sewer board to come talk to the Council. Mayor Ard said he can get it on the agenda and, at this time, he can tell you they haven’t looked at this issue. The Mayor said he will have them address it and let us know. Councilmember Ellis said we don’t outsource anything so why do we want to outsource the sewer. Councilmember Bean agrees but he would like to hear what the board says. Mayor Ard will let us know what the Region says. Councilmember Kirkham said she will work on the Strategic Plan but she can’t do it until January. She will let Leslie know her thoughts, so Leslie can come up with some rough drafts. Councilmember Bean said on streets we budgeted enough to do the design on one of our roads and do we want to get it started. Lance said we have already had some preliminary conversations from Mountain River on Sunnyside and they have given us some proposals. Councilmember Ellis said he would like to confirm, if we design First Street is the county willing to go. Councilmember Kirkham said we probably don’t want to talk with them until we are sure. Ron said First St. and Sunnyside will be the easiest ones to get the right-of-ways. Councilmember Bean asked which is the most pressing. Councilmember Ellis said if Dove’s Landing happens then th 17 will be. Lance said as soon as we go out for bid then the right-of-ways go up. Councilmember Ellis said he th thinks 17 St. and First St. could be designed for the $300,000. Lance said we should probably go out for a RFP for design of these streets. Councilmember Bean said let’s do it and keep them separate but come in at the same time. th Lance suggested 17 St., Sunnyside and First Street. Lance said Idaho Falls is having significant problems with the Woodland Hills lift station. It’s been going down for a total of 76 man hours versus the average of 3 hours per month. He’s going to get with Mountain River and see if he can change the design. It’s a combination of not having direct 3 phase power, VFD drives, soft starch, 11-13-08 Council Meeting Page 4 of 6 or hydromatic pumps. Idaho Falls cannot point it to one thing. Lance is unsure if he has the funds to cover this so he might be coming back to the Council for the funds. 6. Connection Fees (Ray): Councilmember Ellis presented the sewer work sheet and went over the figures for the constituent fees. Councilmember Powell asked if these numbers are based on the additional 2000 users. Councilmember Ellis said no. His opinion is that connection fees will never be an exact science. He feels we take whatever connection fees the City has and they go into the reserve allocation. He would like the user fees to cover the maintenance fees. Councilmember Bean stated we will have to raise the bond allocation too because of the interest at 2%. If you amortize the bond over 20 years that’s $1 million a year and after all the division it changes the figures. Councilmember Ellis stated we are two maybe three years before we go there. Councilmember Ellis feels we should have $2 million when the bonds are ready to go. He thinks next year we should go to $32 then $33 the next year. Councilmember Kirkham asked Councilmember Ellis to send the spreadsheet electronically to the Council. Councilmember Ellis feels these should be line items in our budget so we know how much is going into operations, capital reserve, bond, etc. Mayor Ard asked Councilmember Ellis if he was projecting our connection fees to be $4050. Councilmember Ellis said if you take the simple formula is this and this, then yes. Councilmember Ellis said if we are going to span all the way to Shelley then we should be able to have more than 2000 units. Councilmember Ellis asked if we take the connection fee to $4050 who is going to buy here. The way he has set up the formula it is an inaccurate formula and feels we need to come up with a better one. This formula is based on the court decision. Mayor Ard said the region feels we should be at approx. $3600. Councilmember Ellis asked can we as Ammon set our rate the same as Shelley. Mayor Ard said no. Councilmember Ellis said we need to look at our portion. Councilmember Bean said you bring up a good question as to what part of the $20 million relates to the area not directly impacted yet by the City. Do we include that now or do we wait. Mayor Ard said the region will take over the bonds and pay the bonds. Councilmember Ellis asked how we will collect the user fees. Mayor Ard said we are paying for the line so the county will probably be customers of ours. Ron said the County is ready for the area of impact; however, they are waiting for the right-of-ways. Mayor Ard said Roger stated they are ready to move forward. Councilmember Ellis asked if this $20 million becomes the regions, does our entire system become the regions. Mayor Ard said we would own our system but the region will perform our maintenance. Councilmember Ellis said the region will contract from Sunnyside to the plant and we would contract with the region as to what we own now. Mayor Ard said correct. Councilmember Bean said one thing we need to try and have is a separate fund for reserves and at the end of each year we need to talk to the auditors and decide where we need to allocate for the next year. This is how much more we need to allocate to these funds. Councilmember Ellis asked why we can’t allocate it every month. Councilmember Bean said you can but you need to make sure that your expenditures don’t out spend your O&M but typically you have a line item. Councilmember Bean said he would like to invite the HBA and explain to them what we are doing. Councilmember Ellis talked with Charlie on electrical fees and he made some adjustments and took it to the HBA and they are fine with it. Councilmember Ellis said connection fees must go to operation, maintenance and replacement and what is the portion of these should connection fees pay. Councilmember Bean asked how you build new infrastructure. Councilmember Ellis said you bond for it. Councilmember Bean asked about upsizing. Councilmember Ellis said that’s where your depreciation expense comes in. Councilmember Bean said then it is a portion of capital improvement. Councilmember Ellis said if it’s not being spent properly then it will be challenged. Mayor Ard said it’s basically semantics. Councilmember Bean said somewhere we need to build the reserves for capital improvements. If it’s only O&M why shouldn’t it pay for all of it? Councilmember Ellis stated he would like to see all of the connection fees put into the maintenance reserve allocation for replacement. Councilmember Bean said it forces the builder to fund the cost of development, if they want to build out or we grow from the inside out. Ron said once we get the regional in then we will be building from the outside in. Councilmember Bean said you have that area south of town on York that we can’t service through that line. Ron said the developer should pay for it. Lance said it would be us from Woodland Hills trying to connect to the interceptor. Mayor Ard said we would have to split and run it down Ammon Road. The line that goes down Eagle Drive doesn’t have to be as big of a line if we split it and go down Ammon Road and bring the two together. Mayor Ard said we would go down Ammon and get rid of Woodland Hills then over to the main. He will talk with the engineers to verify it. Councilmember Ellis said Ted, Husk and himself are meeting on Monday and the question remains if IBSD comes in why don’t we upsize anyway with the new pipe we are looking at which won’t cost us anymore. Councilmember Ellis thinks we should build it as big as we can. Mayor Ard said it would come down Ammon Road and there’s a line stubbed past Lennis and he thinks its 24 inch. Lance said there is a 30 11-13-08 Council Meeting Page 5 of 6 inch down Sunnyside. Councilmember Waite asked if we should go down York before it goes over to the mainline. Mayor Ard said it should but this is what he doesn’t know. Councilmember Powell asked Councilmember Ellis what is happening on water. Councilmember Ellis said the engineers say we will be under the $15 million. Councilmember Ellis said now is the time to get the designs completed. The last bid Forsgren submitted had 23 bidders and it came in low. Council asked Leslie to send Scott Halls recommendations for Ted Hendricks’s contract to Ted. 7. Misc: Councilmember Thompson asked where we are with Arave and the lots. Lance said he has come to an agreement with them to install a RP device, which is a step above a double check. With this device it can be justified that they are separate lines. Lance said Charlie will be inspecting the lines for the devices. Councilmember Bean asked where we are at on the Well House building. Lance said Harper Leavitt is moving on with the redesign to make it bigger and taller. Lance said he thinks we still have time to get it on line by late June. Lance said Rockwell had architectural control. Harper Leavitt drew up 14 ft x 14 ft. and they want it 16 x 16 which adds a bunch of costs. Lance said the water tank roof should be ready to pour next Tuesday. We can start putting water into it, as soon as Well House #11 is operational so we can shut down #9 to repair it. We will need #9 to be operational to make it fully operational. Councilmember Bean asked when we start on the other water tank. Lance said they are in design now. Councilmember Ellis said they started drilling Well #11 Monday and they are at 150 feet. Councilmember Waite motioned to adjourn. Councilmember Bean seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Waite – Yes, Councilmember Bean – Yes, Councilmember Ellis – Yes, and Councilmember Thompson – Yes. The motion passed. The meeting adjourned at 6:20 p.m. ________________________________________ C. Bruce Ard, Mayor __________________________________ Leslie Folsom, City Clerk 11-13-08 Council Meeting Page 6 of 6