05082008CouncilMinutes - Work Session
CITY OF AMMON
CITY COUNCIL
WORK SESSION MINUTES
THURSDAY, MAY 8, 2008 – 4:00 PM
:
AGENDA
CITY OF AMMON
2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD
CITY COUNCIL
AGENDA – WORK SESSION
THURSDAY, MAY 8, 2007 - 4:00 P.M.
Discussion Items:
1.Maverik - Sunnyside Road (4-17-08 Agenda)
2.Scott Tallman – Well #11 Infrastructure Improvements (4-17-08 Agenda)
3.Quail Ridge Phase II (4-17-08 Agenda)
4.Hawks Landing Amendment to Development Agreement for Will Serve Letter (Ron)
5.Transferring Development Rights (Ron)
6.Falls Water – Water Rights Bridgewater and Park Strip (Ron)
7.Animal Control Policies (Brian/Shawna)
8.Upgrade Contract Wastewater Treatment Plant/Update Regional Sewer Authority (Ted Hendricks)
9.Misc.
MINUTES
The meeting was called to order by Councilmember Bean at 4:10 p.m. in the City Building, 2135 South
Ammon Road, Ammon, Idaho, with the following City Officials present:
City Officials Present:
Councilmember Dana Kirkham
Councilmember Lee Bean
Councilmember Randy Waite
Councilmember Rex Thompson
Councilmember D. Ray Ellis
City Engineer Lance Bates
City Planning Director Ron Folsom
City Clerk Leslie Folsom
City Officials Absent:
Mayor Bruce Ard
Councilmember Brian Powell
DISCUSSION ITEMS
:
1. Maverik – Sunnyside Road (4-17-08 Agenda):
Lance talked about two comparative bids for lights
that occurred last year to use for the light at this property; they were $285,000 and $270,000.
Councilmember Ellis stated he talked to the State of Idaho and they went with a bridge on a similar type
property because it was cheaper. Lance stated we do not have a clear plan for what we want to do and
suggested getting a percentage in the agreement. Councilmember Kirkham suggested we figure out the
options and then go from there. Councilmember Bean commented it makes sense to have Maverik cover
half the costs of the light since they are coming in now.
Alan Cunningham from Mountain River Engineering representing Maverik stated they estimated
spending $60,000 and maybe a little more for the light. He explained they are not a destination; they are a
convenience and they do not cause more traffic. Councilmember Thompson commented they have some of
the lowest gas prices in town and that would make them a destination. Alan inquired if they could give
25% for future funds to be escrowed. Councilmember Bean commented we still need money for 3 other
easements.
Council discussed the only options are lights or a round-a-bout. It was discussed we need the
light. Lance stated he has not seen a traffic study but feels the light is warranted. Councilmember Kirkham
suggested guessing about $80,000 since we do not know what it is going to cost or have them pay 25%.
Councilmember Thompson commented we should look at next year’s street budget and plan for it there.
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Councilmember Bean commented he would feel better with $90,000. It was discussed to budget it for next
year. Council discussed that $90,000 is a good number. Councilmember Kirkham inquired if Maverik
would be okay with $90,000 or 25% put in 3 years. Brad, from Maverik, stated he would have to look at it
and take it back to his group.
Councilmember Bean stated he would like to revisit the drainage swale because he really does not
want it. Alan stated there are things they can do, but there will still be a depression. He stated they can go
another way to soften it with underground gravel. Lance stated he had talked to Alan about it and figures
they can decrease the depth of the swale by half. Alan stated they will try to keep as much as they can
underground. They still have to have some open volume. Council felt good at about 1.5 feet. It was
discussed Walgreen’s was 5 feet and East Idaho Credit Union was 4 feet.
2. Scott Tallman – Well #11 Infrastructure Improvements (4-17-08 Agenda):
Lance Bates explained
he has talked with Keller and the Mayor was going to sign the award to Summer Construction. Mr.
Tallman was under the indication that Well #11 was higher on the priority list or would be done first versus
the transmission line up Sunnyside. Lance explained that Sunnyside was the first designed and first to be
bid so it will be built first. He has told Keller to move forward on both. The lot will most likely not
change. Lance explained there is a 27 foot cut to the tank and it makes it difficult because OSHA doesn’t
like anything over 20 feet. Lance talked about the time frame challenge and they will have to deal with
OSHA as time goes on. Lance explained they are probably 30-35% done on the Well #11 engineering.
Scott Tallman stated they had 3 concerns. He stated there were three of them that got told the
same thing, that Well #11, the line up to #9; booster station and tank were first on the priority list.
Then they got word that the Sunnyside was first. It was discussed that was the original plan, but after we
bid it out and Keller got the bid and they got the preliminary plan, this is the way it has been now. Scott
commented they are waiting on Well #11 and wonders where the communication broke down. He would
like to see more communication from the City. They have a substantial amount of risk on this and feel they
are not in the loop as much as they should be.
Councilmember Bean commented that Lance would welcome any phone calls. He doesn’t feel the
communication needs to be from the City to them. Lance stated any time he has got calls; he gives the best
answers he has available at the time. Scott stated they don’t think it is anyone’s fault, but would like to
maybe see a schedule when they could meet to keep up to date on things.
Councilmember Bean asked Scott what he would suggest. Scott stated they would feel
comfortable with an every other week meeting with Troy, Lance and Keller’s and maybe someone from
Council. George McDaniel talked about a couple of mistakes that have happened and feels if we meet we
can save each other time and money. Council discussed maybe every other week is too often and it should
be once a month. Councilmember Bean suggested they meet with Lance once every two weeks and have
Keller come in once a month. Councilmember Kirkham talked about the reports they receive from Keller
and letting the Council also look at them. Bill Manwill talked about the City Council meetings.
Councilmember Kirkham stated she would prefer not to do it during City Council meetings because there is
a lot in the meetings as they are. She stated they will make sure someone from Council is at the meeting.
Councilmember Ellis volunteered to be there. Councilmember Kirkham asked Lance to give them a copy
of the timeline we have up to this point. Councilmember Thompson stated they do not know if Well #11
has been contested again.
Jeff Hawkes inquired if we have an idea as to when we will have water in the tank. Lance does
not anticipate having water until next spring. Jeff talked about the design for Well #11. Councilmember
Bean inquired how easy it would be to estimate a timeline for them if they had to do it. Lance stated they
should be able to do that now that IDWR is done. Councilmember Kirkham stated we need Keller to give
us a new timeline with the IDWR happenings done.
Jeff talked about the cost they have incurred and wondered if there is way they can have their stuff
pushed further. They are getting a lot of pressure from their financers. They wondered if they could
presale lots or building permits. Councilmember Kirkham commented we did it in Founders. She
suggested we address these issues after we get the timeline. Jeff stated they have a private well up there for
fire flows. They would like to get their models going by this fall since they have people interested in their
lots. He stated they talked to DEQ and they have no issue with them pre-selling lots before the
infrastructure is in. Ron talked about the issues Bonneville County had and they used DEQ for their
language. Jeff stated they would like will serve letters, if possible and to move as quickly as possible.
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3. Quail Ridge Phase II (4-17-08 Agenda):
Troy Burnett gave Council some different layout options for
the lower piece and there has been no progress with the Davenport piece yet. Council discussed they liked
layout #3.
Troy talked if Davenport doesn’t go; there is no sense in tying Foothill in. Lance agreed. There
would have to be a couple of lots changed on layout #3. Council talked about the need for a fire station or
park since there is not any park space in the layout. There is a storm pond and a steep ravine there. There
could be trail around it with some grass. Lance talked about the natural runoff. Troy talked about building
a culvert to pass the water through. Councilmember Kirkham talked about where they have donated land.
Quail Ridge on the north side is a park now and they did not have any park space and she stated it still has
not been deeded to us. George McDaniel stated he signed the deed over 1 ½ years ago. Lance stated he
was told and agreed with the concept of not accepting that until we had confirmation or with the spring
runoff condition, so he has not accepted it. Councilmember Thompson explained they are trying to shoot
for 10 acres of park for every 1000 population.
George McDaniel talked about Suitter’s property and he doesn’t have to put up money for sewer
reimbursement and to his knowledge he doesn’t have to participate. Scott Talman talked about
consistency. Councilmember Kirkham talked about their development pushing us over the edge for the
need of a fire station. Scott asked Council to be a little sensitive to the money issue right now and that they
have been patient.
Troy Burnett talked about the park issue and that the 3-4 acre storm pond would count as park and
figured they were pretty close to the actual amount needed. Councilmember Thompson talked about parks
not being storm ponds all the time.
Jeff talked about remembering that they have given 20 acres. Councilmember Kirkham stated that
they are willing to concede that they won’t need a park there, but does feel we need land for a fire station.
Councilmember Kirkham talked about 1-2 acres for the fire station and may be close to commercial.
4. Hawks Landing Amendment to Development Agreement for Will Serve Letter (Ron):
Jeff Hawkes
stated he would like to discuss amending the development agreements for Division 1. He talked about page
5 and explained he cannot get will serve letters until Well #11 is approved, drilled and operating which
won’t be until April 2009 or so. He inquired if they could change the wording on drilled and operating.
Councilmember Thompson stated the reason they did that is because they don’t have water to give until
Well #11 goes through. Jeff stated he understood that, but he needs the will serve letters. They don’t have
any debt on their property. They don’t want to put debt on the property until they are ready to go. He
talked about what their lender is requiring. They have talked with large production builders and that they
are excited to do these lots but they need the clean will serves to get started. He explained the builder’s
timeline and they can’t build until next spring. They would like to work it out where they could build
models and he would like to see a precise timeline on the water. They would like to start their
improvements by July or August. He explained they also have a reception center and would like to have
infrastructure in before the snow flies.
Jeff stated they would like to amend the development agreement so the city can give them a clean
will serve letter and wondered if it is possible. He talked about his development loan and he understands
they cannot build until they have building permits with water in the tank.
Councilmember Bean proposed to Council about how to amend the development agreement.
Councilmember Ellis talked about running the change by Charlie. Jeff talked about recording the final
plat. Lance talked about needing improvement drawings before he could sign off on it and needing about 2
weeks to look at the new drawings.
Jeff talked about the sewer reimbursement agreement and if any developers that benefit from it
upstream, he reads that it only reimburses the City. They are funding 70% of the off site sewer out of
pocket and they only get reimbursed for the upsize but not from other developer for the out of pocket
expenses. Councilmember Bean stated he would look over the development agreement.
5. Transferring Development Rights (Ron):
Ron explained what transferring development rights are all
about and the possibility of moving development rights. Ron doesn’t think the City would want to move
densities around. He talked about property we have next to the Cottages that Dr. Biddulph owns but does
not want to develop. That property is calculated into the sewer connections based on the densities we
would allow. A developer asked if there is a way to buy Dr. Biddulph’s development rights. Ron
explained it is a good tool if you want to get open space.
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Councilmember Bean stated he has no problem as long as they don’t sell off all their development
rights. Councilmember Ellis doesn’t want it to be a weed patch. Council agreed to proceed with it.
6. Falls Water – Water Rights Bridgewater and Park Strip (Ron):
Ron stated we have water rights we
took from Bridgewater that are actually from Falls Water. Scott Bruce, Falls Water, stated they use
Progressive also. The issue is the park being irrigated by surface water. He stated the frontage along
Ammon Road is irrigated by Falls Water’s water, at the present time. It is metered and billed. We took the
water rights from Bridgewater. Scott Bruce talked about the potential for the irrigation water. He inquired
if there is an agreement that can be reached. Falls Water is providing the water and the City is not and they
would like to see if it feasible to rent that water. Councilmember Bean stated the park will be sprinkled by
Falls Water. Councilmember Bean inquired if it is their intention to meter that park. Scott said no. He
explained the City would be using the irrigation water to water, but the homeowners would be watering
through Falls Water. The City left it to the developer on how to get the water to the development.
Councilmember Ellis stated if we are supplying the park and they are supplying domestic, why it can’t be
left like that. Scott talked about the surface water rights and leasing the water back from the City. Ron
stated we do not own the water rights, we have been transferred the control of the rights.
It was discussed to have Scott draw up a contract lease, but take back if it ever supersedes theirs.
7. Animal Control Policies (Brian/Shawna):
This item was tabled.
8. Upgrade Contract Wastewater Treatment Plant/Update Regional Sewer Authority (Ted
Hendricks):
Ted Hendricks talked about the hookup fees. He stated they would be $3600 including 2%
interest. The only thing to bring it down would be if IBSD came in - it could then go to the low $3000’s.
Hookup fees allow us to maintain the plant and Shelley has been changing theirs every year and is being
beat up each year by the constituents. They recommend doing it once and raising the water to $40. $35
would not help build a reserve for future expenses. Hookup fees are important essential with substantial
growth. The treatment plant alone could justify the $3600 let alone the maintenance expenses.
The bidders on the first phase of the treatment plant were discussed and $20 million or $585,000
at a base bid. RSEI is the apparent bidder. They have checked the references and all are excellent. They
received 3 bids and they were all very close. They would like to award all 3 alternates. The PCA
construction of the treatment plant will pay 75% and Shelley will pay the balance of 25%. We get $1.2 -1.4
million from the State. Idaho earmarked $30 million for the project but each year depends on
appropriation. The Authority awarded bids upon DEQ approval. We need a fee increase to keep pace.
Ammon needs to put forth $7million of their bonds and then it is a go.
Ted Hendricks talked about the judicial confirmation and the costs involved. He talked to Scott
today and he is willing to facilitate it. Scott will take it before a judge to have it declared ordinary and
necessary. Ted suggested hiring one bond attorney for both cities and one local attorney for both cities and
have both entities split the costs equally. Ted explained Scott had a concern with the arbitration clause, but
we cannot change it because it is with the Army Corp contract which is a government contract.
Ammon needs to give their conditional approval of the contract and put up $7 million, contingent
upon Shelley’s approval and DEQ’s approval. DEQ will have the final rubber stamp. He would like
approval to move ahead with judicial confirmation.
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9. Misc.:
Leslie talked about the ball diamond at Eagle Point that will be dedicated on the 21 of May at
6pm. She explained they would like to have someone there to cut the ribbon.
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Leslie explained Idaho Falls will be going through their daycare ordinance on the 22 of May.
Leslie explained we do not have an ordinance or resolution for the water from last year. Ron
stth
talked about the proclamation. He explained it starts May 1 and ends September 30 every year. We
would need to advertise every year. Ron suggested doing a display ad twice a year and it would be about
$600 for the two times. Council concurred.
Leslie stated Shawna has been warning junk cars and then they move it across the street. Leslie
talked about getting an ordinance set up. Councilmember Bean inquired if they have to give a warning. He
feels we need to just ticket them.
Ron talked about the R2A, R3A, etc zones. He talked about the requirements that need to be met.
He talked about pushing developers into a market that is not sellable. Why can’t we allow them to build
town houses and have 5 owners instead of 24 renters? He would like some feedback on the issue.
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Councilmember Ellis talked about high density rentals being a problem and wants to push for higher
density ownership.
Lance stated Bill gave him a water and sewer reimbursement for the Founder’s Pointe upsize for
$260,000. Most of it is to furnish and install the lines. It was discussed upsize is meant to pay for the pipe.
He would like Council’s direction to go to Bill and have him direct cost for the pipe only. Lance talked
about part of the bill changing from 12” plastic to 14” ductile iron. He doesn’t think we required that. It
was discussed we did not. Lance explained he likes ductile iron because it lasts a long time. We should not
pay for going from plastic to ductile. Council concurred to have Lance go to Bill and tell him the numbers
are not correct.
Councilmember Kirkham motioned to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 7:05 p.m.
___________________________________________
C. Bruce Ard, Mayor
______________________________________
Leslie Folsom, City Clerk
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