04102008CouncilMinutes - Work Session
CITY OF AMMON
CITY COUNCIL
WORK SESSION MINUTES
THURSDAY, APRIL 10, 2008
AGENDA
:
CITY OF AMMON
2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD
CITY COUNCIL
AGENDA – WORK SESSION
THURSDAY, APRIL 10, 2007 - 4:00 P.M.
Discussion Items:
1.Draft RFP – Ammon LID (Lance)
2.Employee Health Insurance Proposals (Dana)
a. 4:15 p.m. Dwight Parkinson
b. 4:45 p.m. Matt Waldron
c. 5:15 p.m. Ray Severe
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3.Developer Request – Southside of 17 Requirements
4.Fire Code – 3 and 4 Plex Housing Fire Sprinklers (Dana and Ray)
5.Water & Sewer Connections Fees (Ray)
6.Tree Ordinance (Ron/Ken)
7.Misc.
MINUTES
The meeting was called to order by Mayor Ard at 4:00 p.m. in the City Building, 2135 South Ammon Road,
Ammon, Idaho, with the following City Officials present:
City Officials Present: Mayor Bruce Ard
Councilmember Dana Kirkham
Councilmember Randy Waite
Councilmember Rex Thompson
Councilmember D. Ray Ellis
City Engineer Lance Bates
City Planning Director Ron Folsom
City Clerk Leslie Folsom
City Officials Absent: Councilmember Lee Bean
Councilmember Brian Powell
Mayor Ard called the meeting to order at 4:00pm. Councilmember Kirkham motioned to move into
executive session per Idaho code 67-2345(c)(f). Councilmember Thompson seconded. Roll call vote:
Councilmember Kirkham – Yes, Councilmember Thompson – Yes, Councilmember Waite – Yes, and
Councilmember Ellis – Yes. The motion passed.
DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1. Draft RFP – Ammon LID (Lance): Lance Bates gave a copy of the draft RFP to Council and inquired if
they had any questions. They would narrow it down to two or three and then officially present them to City
Council. Council stated they are okay with it, as presented.
2. Employee Health Insurance Proposals (Dana): Councilmember Kirkham explained to Council they need
to renew our health insurance by June when it expires. The employees have concerns and would like some better
services. We have three different bids today from three different brokers. They all basically sell the same thing,
so we need to decide which broker we feel most comfortable with. After a broker is selected, we will then go
through the underwriting process.
a. 4:15 p.m. Dwight Parkinson: Dwight Parkinson thanked the Council for the opportunity to speak
concerning the cities insurance needs. Basically you are hiring a human resource manager. He gave a list of
background information on himself. They could add vision for a small cost which is a great benefit to add.
There are 8 different areas that an agent needs to look at to have a cost effective, well run employee benefits
department and he would like to sit down with employees to get the idea of what they would like to have as far as
deductibles, etc. There are differences based on what the employees would like to see, as far as benefits. He
feels it is important to be able to communicate to employees what their insurance package covers. He would
have a package they could refer to for benefits. He explained service is very important and he has been trying to
get this account for 3 years. He would have an employee meeting to help them fill out their applications. He
talked about long term disability options. He is from Ammon and would like to offer the service to them.
Councilmember Kirkham inquired if they go with him, if he could get things going quickly. Dwight
stated he could. He would suggest a meeting with employees, as soon as possible.
Councilmember Kirkham inquired if they administer a cafeteria plan. Dwight stated they do not, but
they have access to someone who does.
Leslie Folsom inquired if he would work one on one with the employees or as a group. Dwight stated
he would start as a group and then if they wanted to meet individually, he would do that.
b. 4:45 p.m. Matt Waldron: Matt Waldron stated he is with Castle Lake Insurance in Idaho Falls and
has been in the insurance industry for about 10 -11 years. He represents and works with several carriers in Idaho.
He is unique in that he does not stop with the health, dental and vision insurances, he rounds out the whole
package with cafeteria plans, supplemental insurance, etc. He stated a meeting with the employees is important
so they can fill out applications properly. When those applications are turned in; all the agents will get the same
numbers back. He explained how they can better communicate with companies and can counsel employees with
the benefits. When new employees come in; they come in and explain the benefits to them. He discussed
cafeteria plans. He explained a salary representation with the cafeteria plans. He talked about using Ameriflex
for administering cafeteria plans. All of these benefits are part of the benefits program through Colonial Life.
He talked about the enrollment election form and dual choice plans. There is a online system called Harmony
which you can print out summaries or applications immediately. He explained the different supplemental
benefits they have available. He returns phone calls within 12 – 24 hours and works with large and small offices.
He presented references of accounts he handles. There is a website available for the HR Department to refer to
by going through Colonial Life. He talked about COBRA administration which is handled through Ameriflex.
He wants to make sure all angles are covered and that you are in compliance. He explained his service is very
important and feels that sets him apart from others.
Leslie Folsom inquired if a lot of doctors are contracted with Colonial. Matt stated with supplemental
insurance you can go to whatever doctor you want to. They have an indemnity plan, somewhat like AFLAC. He
can access all the health, dental, vision but adds the supplemental insurance.
c. 5:15 p.m. Ray Severe: Councilmember Kirkham stated our current representative is Steve Fransen.
He brought in Ray when we realized we were not doing things like COBRA, etc.
Ray Severe thanked Council for letting him come and speak. He represents Lincoln Benefit Solutions.
He explained Steve Fransen is with Alpine Insurance who originally set up your benefits. As the City has grown,
different laws apply and one of those is COBRA. Once you have 20 or more employees you have to administer
COBRA. It is the employer’s responsibility to do that, but stated that is what they do is handle it for the
employer. They also do a payroll service, buy down programs, health reimbursement arrangements, HSA’s,
group and individual insurance, dental, vision, group term life, short/long term disability and cafeteria plans. The
advantages of an HRA are the dollars and the claims carry forward. He explained they do group and individual
insurance. Steve Fransen stated they do have a quote for group disability they did last year for the City of
Ammon. He talked about re-shopping health insurance. They can email each employee and they are very
sensitive to HIPAA. They like to try to shield you from any complications. He was a trust officer for a bank and
has been doing benefits for about 10 -11 years. Steve Fransen talked about being the insurance carrier for a
number of years and meetings to review health insurance with Bruce Rose.
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3. Developer Request – Southside of 17 Requirements: Planning Director Ron Folsom explained the other
night at City Council we tabled the motion. They have presented a site plan, etc and would like to address the
Council to express some concerns.
Jason Brown, 11064 Sir Barton Lane South Jordan, Utah, 84095 was present and Jerry Kershaw, 3171
E. 10000 S. Sandy, Utah, 94092 was present.
Jason stated they had concerns about annexing the north and going commercial. His understanding
with the Comprehensive Plan change was the same as the City’s intended direction. The neighbors decided they
liked the comp plan and P&Z approved everything.
Ron explained the south side of the road shows on the comp plan as high density residential and the
request is to change to commercial. The property on the north is in the County and is shown as low density
residential and the corner property is commercial. They want it all changed to commercial. The northern most
property of this is annexed as commercial.
Jason explained they are small time developers and they came in and talked to the neighbors and
explained what it was currently zoned. Ron explained it’s zoned R2 with 8 twin homes per acre. They explained
to the neighbors their plans with commercial and storage units in the back. He feels it is not a good spot for a big
box. He talked about town homes and duplexes eventually turning into rentals and the storage units would have
less traffic and be clean and attractive.
Jason talked about City Council requesting them to develop both the north and south side of the road
but they do not own that property. The residents do not have any desire to sell their front yards for additional
roads and they cannot force them to do that. Councilmember Kirkham inquired if P&Z approved with no
conditions. Ron stated yes. The idea of improving the north side of the street was not introduced until it came to
Council. Jason stated they are more than happy to do their side with a deceleration lane.
Councilmember Thompson concerns are that the property was annexed with the condition that it only is
for the R2 with the two houses and it is in the annexation agreement with the original property. Councilmember
Ellis stated he got the impression from Scott that because the property changed hands there is not a problem with
that. Councilmember Thompson stated the original owner still has that same concern. Ron stated the only
property owner, that was living there at the time that did not voice support, was Lemoine Johnson and he did not
come to either hearing so we don’t know if he has any comments. It was discussed this was not a hearing at
Council.
Ron stated the north side has not changed hands except to sell some property to Pratt. Brad Pratt owns
¾ of the property. Ron stated the Sant’s were most vocal at the time originally, but they now support it. Ron
stated Kim Hall supported the south, if the north gets changed.
Mayor Ard stated the concern from the north side is if we annex it and it stays the use it is now, then
someone buys a piece of C1 property then the value of it and the taxes change. Ron stated he and Leslie called
Lianne at the County about this. She assured us that if one of those properties sells for an exorbitant amount it is
not supposed to affect the other properties. She gave them examples. It was discussed we cannot give that
guarantee though.
Councilmember Kirkham inquired why we would want to annex it commercial right now. Ron stated
he has concerns with annexing at this time. He believes we could end up with a small parcel request for
development which would cause the area to develop hodge podge rather than as a whole. Ron feels it would be
wise to tell future annexation requests in the north side county island that we will only consider annexation as a
whole or with the condition development occurs as a unit not each parcel independent of the others.
Alan Cunningham said on the north side you have residents that are okay to change to comp plan to C1.
You still have control. On the south side you have a request to change the comp. plan from high density
residential to commercial and on that piece you have a request to rezone it from R-2 to C-1and having the
developer give you an idea of what he wants to do with the property.
Councilmember Thompson stated part of the reason for tabling it is because they would like to see the
preliminary plat, site plan, and final plats all come in at the same time, so we can see what is going in.
Councilmember Kirkham inquired why we would not change the comp plan, if we all agree we want
commercial on all those corners. Councilmember Thompson said one of the reasons is on the north side we
would not annex unless we got the right of way. They are not asking for annexation. Ron stated Brad would like
to live in his home 4-5 years. Councilmember Kirkham stated we typically have the developer develop their side
of the road. At the time of development on the north side, they would be required to develop their side. It is
consistent with what we have done in the past. Mayor Ard inquired where it has been required. Councilmember
Kirkham stated to look at Maverik.
Councilmember Ellis commented they are coming into a street that is overtaxed. We are trying to find
a solution. He feels we are overstepping a bit.
Councilmember Kirkham commented you proportionately weight the size of the development to the
size of the improvements. Councilmember Ellis commented that once you change it to a commercial zone they
can do whatever they want including a gas station. Ron stated the issue is not the site plan, preliminary plat, etc.
it is the north side. Jason stated they should have the plats and plan to them in 10 days. They indicated even the
commercial on the front probably won’t be anything for about 4 years. They own about half of Harriman and
have a good reputation. Councilmember Kirkham inquired if their main concern was the north side. Jason stated
that is their only concern.
Mayor Ard inquired about the 4 years and not doing it. Jason explained only the other portion is what
they want to get going. He talked about how they master plan everything they do to have a flow to it. They
would improve immediately. He talked about why the north side came in and they wanted to be good neighbors.
Councilmember Kirkham inquired what the Council is thinking. Councilmember Thompson stated it is
a good plan; they just need assurance that that is what is going to happen. He is comfortable with changing the
north side also. Councilmember Ellis feels we are good to go. He does not feel we have to tie the two together.
Councilmember Waite stated he does not have any major concerns. He feels we cannot ask for the other side.
It was discussed when they would go to P&Z and to Council.
4. Fire Code – 3 and 4 Plex Housing Fire Sprinklers (Dana and Ray): Stacy stated he became aware of it
last October and he wants to be consistent with our neighbors to the west. He briefly spoke with Charlie about it
and Charlie wanted to see what Idaho Falls was going to do. They took longer than they thought and took the
exemption out. They are requiring the sprinklers. Stacy explained in the International Fire Code it is in those
codes to sprinkle those buildings, 3 and 4 plexes. He explained the State Legislature put an exception in for the
State of Idaho to not sprinkle them. Chris stated it is in the Fire Code and in the appendix of the Residential
Code, it is not part of what we officially adopted. Stacy stated they talked to Charlie about it about 2 months
ago. He based his decision on what was going to be exempt with the State and that IF and Bonneville County
were not going to require it. Idaho Falls changed their mind.
Ken Anderson, Fire Marshall for the City of Idaho Falls, stated the process they went through. He
talked about what helped them make their decision and the 1994 minimum requirements. He explained different
codes reference each other. He talked about the fire code section 903.3 and what it reads and the commentary.
There are trade ups and trade offs. There are about 400 or more instances where a decision will affect another
decision. There are different types of sprinkler systems used in the different buildings. He explained sometimes
the fire code supersedes the building code which they learned the hard way. Charlie stated he would disagree on
several points. Every instance where there is a sprinkler required there is an exception. So if you don’t have a
sprinkler, then you have to do this. You get trade offs when you put a sprinkler in. The 2003 building code was
the first code that brought units down to 3-4 plex which we adopted in 2005. That is how it usually works, the
code comes out and it takes about 2 years to adopt it. He explained there were 16 units allowed not to be
sprinkled. He talked about fire resistant construction and smoke alarms. He would challenge Ken to show one
issue that is not addressed.
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Charlie stated he wrote a code that we adopted on January 1 and we took the State’s exception and
they felt with 5” sheetrock and the standards – he feels there is safety there. He tried to get it taken care of last
fall. We made the decision and put it in the code. He feels to change it now it ruffles feathers. It was discussed
we change the code every 3 years.
Councilmember Ellis commented we need to take the emotion out of it. Less than 4% of residential
homes have had fires. Between 2002-2004 less than 4% of the fire related deaths had working smoke detectors.
He feels this is where the problem lies is with smoke detectors and does not feel the cost is justified. The second
thing he looks at is our water pressure problems. Stacy stated the current pressures can operate as low as 7 PSI.
Councilmember Kirkham commented we have areas under 7 PSI and feels it is a concern. We cannot loop at this
point. Stacy asked when we will start doing what we need to do.
Councilmember Ellis commented the national homebuilders and the fire manufactures are working
together to develop a cost reasonable system. They are trying to be proactive. He talked about the amount of
recalls on sprinkler heads.
Charlie talked about prior to 1970 there was alot of lathe and plasters, but now homes are safer due to
the materials used.
Chris Ford, Fire Marshall, talked about the concern for human life, not the building. He talked about a
college student falling asleep and the sprinkler putting it out. The smoke can be just as deadly.
Stacy explained the cost is not a problem, he stated it is $1 per square foot. Councilmember Kirkham
stated the figures she was given was $4 per square foot. Charlie stated it is $3.50 per square foot for this area.
Charlie hates to change course in the middle of the code. If we want to exact it out, then let’s do it the
next code cycle. He feels sprinklers are good, but the timing is bad.
Councilmember Ellis inquired if sprinklers are set up on exit requirements. Chris explained sprinklers
are based on occupancy not exiting options.
Councilmember Kirkham stated she talked to Councilmember Powell about the issue. His concern is
that I.F. has adopted it. He talked about 3-4 plexes coming here if they are cheaper than I.F. She feels that is
something we have to look at.
Ron Folsom stated the apartment land cost is more in Ammon than in I.F. and we don’t have that much
left to develop.
Councilmember Kirkham talked about the daycare ordinance issue and working closely with I.F. and
feels this is the same type of issue. Councilmember Thompson commented we should talk to Scott about the
legalities of changing the code.
Charlie commented that with 4 sprinklers you need 2” sprinklers. He explained there is an additional
annual $175 inspection fee.
Councilmember Ellis commented as a builder, he would pay another $100 on a building permit to make
sure we have working smoke detectors. He feels the cost increase hits the ones who can least afford it.
5. Water & Sewer Connections Fees (Ray): Councilmember Ellis stated he wants to understand how we came
up with the water & sewer fees. Mayor Ard stated he can tell you how we came up with the cost by sitting on the
regional sewer council. They took the project as a whole and based it on the amount of connections we have
lined up to go on the system. Everyone should buy at the same cost to come in.
Councilmember Ellis commented about the case with Hailey vs. Lewis and the connection fee. Mayor
Ard stated it is part of our reserve to buy into the region. We passed a $16 million bond, which is not enough to
buy into where we need to be. Councilmember Ellis feels we cannot use connection fees for capital expansion.
Mayor Ard thought that is the only way we could use them. Councilmember Ellis stated it is for operations and
maintenance.
Councilmember Kirkham stated she agreed with Councilmember Ellis. She feels we need to look at the
spreadsheets with the income and outflow of the departments. She would like Councilmember Bean to pull the
sheets so we can all look at them. Councilmember Kirkham inquired if we can push it off until next month.
Councilmember Ellis stated that was fine.
6. Tree Ordinance (Ron/Ken): It was discussed this will be converted to a real ordinance.
7. Misc.: Councilmember Kirkham would like to have Council pick a carrier. She stated she talked to Steve
about insurance evaluations which have not been done since Leslie did it when she was on Council, which was
about 5 years ago. It makes a big difference with the City growing. Things have changed and health issues have
changed with employees. She talked to Steve Fransen and he said he tried to do the evaluations, but Bruce Rose
didn’t let him. Steve asked her to meet with Ray Severe. It has been transferred to Ray and she is very satisfied
with him. She does not know if he really wants it, but feels he is best suited for our needs. Mayor Ard stated he
worked with Ray when he worked at the bank and he feels he was good. He feels he knows his stuff.
Councilmember Kirkham talked about the COBRA issues with past employees. It was discussed Dwight would
do a good job and he is in Ammon, however, he does not administer the cafeteria plan. We could give Dwight
the health options and give Ray the others. Mayor Ard asked Councilmember Kirkham to go to Dwight and see
if it is a viable option. It was discussed you need to have someone there representing our insurance and the
cafeteria plan information is not easily available.
Leslie Folsom inquired about the website and the input that we want to put in. She would like to ask if
she and Bruce Patterson could work together, as to what should and should not be, on the website. It was
discussed the public service things can be put on with Leslie and Bruce making the decision. The Council
concurred to let Leslie and Bruce pursue this.
Councilmember Thompson commented he will be gone next week.
Councilmember Ellis motioned to adjourn. Councilmember Thompson seconded. Roll call vote:
Councilmember Ellis – Yes, Councilmember Thompson – Yes, Councilmember Waite – Yes, and
Councilmember Kirkham – Yes. The motion passed.
The meeting adjourned at 6:55 p.m.
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C. Bruce Ard, Mayor
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Leslie Folsom, City Clerk