03062008CouncilMinutes
CITY OF AMMON
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
THURSDAY, MARCH 6, 2008
AGENDA
:
CITY OF AMMON
2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD
CITY COUNCIL
AMENDED AGENDA
THURSDAY, MARCH 6, 2008 - 7:30 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER:
Mayor Bruce Ard at 7:30 p.m.
Pledge of Allegiance – Councilmember Kirkham
Prayer – Councilmember Waite
MINUTES:
February 7 and February 14, 2008
ITEMS FROM MAYOR:
CONSENT AGENDA:
Business License
Accounts Payable – Exhibit A
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
None
PUBLIC COMMENT REGARDING ITEMS NOT ON AGENDA:
ACTION ITEMS:
1.Resolution 2008-002 Fees for Land Use and Annexation Requests
2.Hawks Landing Reimbursement Request
3.Ordinance 450 – Title 8, Chapter 2 Parks and Chapter 3 Delinquent Accounts Discussion
4.Woodland Hills Controller Purchase (Randy)
5. Pearl House Wastewater Treatment Letter (Mayor)
DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1.Brogan Creek Preliminary Review
2.Resolution 2008-003 Park Policy and Fees Review
3.Annexation and Development Agreement Drafts
4.Community Infrastructure Districts (Ray)
5.Attorney – City Communication (Lee/Scott)
6. Council email/phone/address (Leslie)
7. Pool/Ballgame Registration (Leslie)
8.
Misc.
MINUTES
The meeting was called to order by Mayor Ard at 7:30 p.m. in the City Building, 2135 South Ammon Road,
Ammon, Idaho, with the following City Officials present:
City Officials Present:
Mayor Bruce Ard
Councilmember Dana Kirkham
Councilmember Rex Thompson
Councilmember Randy Waite
Councilmember D. Ray Ellis
Councilmember Brian Powell
City Attorney Scott Hall
City Planning Director Ron Folsom
City Engineer Lance Bates
City Clerk Leslie Folsom
City Officials Absent:
Councilmember Lee Bean
Councilmember Kirkham led the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag and Councilmember Waite offered the
prayer.
City Council Minutes 03/06/2008 -- 1
MINUTES:
February 7 and February 14, 2008: Councilmember Kirkham motioned to approve the minutes from
February 7, 2008 as presented. Councilmember Powell seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Kirkham – Yes,
Councilmember Powell – Yes, Councilmember Waite – Yes, Councilmember Thompson – Yes, and
Councilmember Ellis – Yes. The motion passed.
Councilmember Powell motioned to approve the minutes from February 14, 2008 as presented.
Councilmember Thompson seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Powell – Yes, Councilmember Thompson –
Yes, Councilmember Waite – Yes, Councilmember Ellis – Yes, and Councilmember Kirkham – Abstain.
Councilmember Kirkham abstained due to absence.
ITEMS FROM MAYOR:
Mayor Ard stated he met with the developers concerning the flood plain and Scott
needs to review the contract. He met with the County last week and they are okay with everything and want us to be
the lead. He told them we would put together a memorandum that they could sign. We should have the contract
ready to ratify by the next council meeting.
Mayor Ard welcomed the scouts and asked them to introduce themselves and the merit badge they are working on.
CONSENT AGENDA:
CITY OF AMMON
BUSINESS LICENSE CONSENT AGENDA
Thursday March 6, 2008
License applications are pending in the City Office for the following:
GENERAL BUSINESS LICENSE 2008:
1.NEWGENERAL BUSINESS LICENSE APPLICATION:
A.Pioneer Metal, Inc. – Manufacturing – 3968 E. Sunnyside Rd. Unit #3
st
B.VanKampen, Alexandra – Daycare Employee/Snake River Montessori – 2970 E. 1 St.
2.RENEWALBUSINESS LICENSE APPLICATION:
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A.Prime Time Golf / Pro Image – Retail Sales – 939 S. 25 E. Ste. #106
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B.American Promotional Events/Wal-Mart Parking Lot–Sale of Fireworks – 1201 S. 25 E.
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C.Kohl’s #1086 – Retail Sales – 3175 S. 25 E.
D.Eagles Landing Apartments – Apartment Community – 2785 Eagle Drive
Councilmember Waite motioned to approve the Business License Consent Agenda. Councilmember Ellis
seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Waite – Yes, Councilmember Ellis – Yes, Councilmember Thompson –
Yes, Councilmember Powell – Yes, and Councilmember Kirkham – Yes. The motion passed.
Council discussed the Accounts Payable portion of the Consent Agenda. Councilmember Ellis inquired
about Page 3 under the Street Department; he inquired how much has been prepaid by homeowners and how much
is coming out of our pocket. Lance stated most of it is coming from our pocket and we need to be reimbursed by the
homeowners on that. He stated they are sidewalks up in the Cottages that were not put in by homeowners after
numerous requests. It was discussed to send them a bill. Councilmember Waite inquired about the Parks
Department and a bill for Classic Auto Body for $2200. Leslie stated ICRIMP sent us a check and we posted it and
included the deductible and sent it to Classic Auto Body so it was paid in full.
Councilmember Kirkham motioned to approve the Accounts Payable Consent Agenda. Councilmember
Waite seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Kirkham – Yes, Councilmember Waite – Yes, Councilmember
Powell – Yes, Councilmember Thompson – Yes, and Councilmember Ellis – Yes. The motion passed.
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
None
PUBLIC COMMENT REGARDING ITEMS NOT ON AGENDA:
None
ACTION ITEMS
:
1. Resolution 2008-002 Fees for Land Use and Annexation Requests:
Planning Director Ron Folsom explained
this is really a clarification of how we charged them before. He explained how the ordinance was written and how it
has changed. The resolution matches how we are doing the notification process. It was discussed you do A first
and then B and C. Scott stated 3-B would become 3-A1, and 3-C would become 3-A2. Councilmember Powell
motioned to accept Resolution 2008-002 Fees for Land Use and Annexation Requests with the changes under
Section 3, changing B to A1 and C to A2. Councilmember Thompson seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember
Powell – Yes, Councilmember Thompson – Yes, Councilmember Ellis – Yes, Councilmember Waite – Yes, and
Councilmember Kirkham – Yes. The motion passed.
City Council Minutes 03/06/2008 -- 2
2. Hawks Landing Reimbursement Request:
Planning Director Ron Folsom explained he received this request
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on the 26 via email from Blake. He stated they thought the night they changed the preliminary plat that there was
discussion at the Council that there would be a reimbursement for the changes on the plat and Ron told them he
would submit it to Council.
Brent Lowe, 900 Wheatstone – Idaho Falls, came to the microphone. Councilmember Kirkham stated she
did not remember it that way and does not remember a precedent where we have done that. Mayor Ard agreed.
Councilmember Kirkham stated we could certainly review the minutes. Ron stated it is not in the minutes, but we
could review the tapes also. Brent stated their recollection was not for reimbursement but to bring it before Council
when the bill came and discuss it then. He discussed the material changes that were made after the preliminary plat
approval, which he believes were approved in March of last year. They met with Lance Bates about changes that
needed to be made.
Lance Bates explained most of the changes made had to do with the location of the sewer lines being
moved from green space into public rights-of-way. He felt it would be in the long-term disinterest of the City to
retain them in the green space where we could not get access to them. Councilmember Kirkham stated she thought
we approved the preliminary plat but stated it was contingent upon the new engineer’s approval. Lance stated that
most of the time preliminary plats are preliminary and explained what changes are generally made at that time. He
explained when you approve a preliminary plat; no design criteria or details are looked at so you can’t really
approve the location of the sewer, water line, or any other underground utility without having the construction plans.
He explained he looked at the construction plans and disagreed with them. Brent stated the construction plans were
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approved and signed by their engineers on May 24 and throughout the entire time they were consulting with the
current engineer for the City at that time. Everyone had full disclosure of the plans. Scott Hall stated it is not in the
budget. Councilmember Kirkham stated this is why they approved the PUD because we have some say in it. Brent
stated that moving the sewer lines is a huge change. Council stated that our standard is that utilities are under the
street, not green space. Brent stated this should have been a discussion back in February or March of last year.
Councilmember Kirkham stated not necessarily. Scott talked about how things have changed continually with this
development. Brent talked about the recent changes and they did not require material changes to the documents.
Lance stated preliminary plats are not when you lock down that infrastructure; it is at final platting when you do
that. Brent stated that the City is making a precedent by making major material changes to a construction document
after a preliminary plat. Councilmember Kirkham stated they do want that. Brent inquired if they should be doing
any engineering work then until the final plat. He stated that is very expensive and difficult. He feels that is what
the preliminary plat is for. They got feedback from the engineer and the planning commission. Councilmember
Kirkham stated the improvement drawings are never subject to the approval of Council that is what the City
Engineer is for. Ron stated the Planning Commission never looks at them either. Brent stated the City Engineer
advises and informs the Planning Commission. Council stated they do not. Lance stated the construction drawings
do not go to the Planning Commission or the City Council. Brent inquired about working with the City Engineer
and showing him all the drawings during the preliminary plat process or should we not be showing him any sort of
drawings for his feedback. Councilmember Kirkham stated you should be getting feedback. She stated the City
Engineer, at the time, did not sign the construction drawings. Brent stated the City Engineer, at the time, did review
them and approved the drawings. He stated they had lengthy discussions about where the sewer lines should go and
the City Engineer assured them that it would not be an issue so they moved forward. Scott stated the City Engineer
has no binding ability with the City. Brent inquired what the purpose of a preliminary plat is then. Scott stated it is
to give a preliminary description of where you think things are going to be. It does not become final or binding on
the developer or the City. It’s when you get to the final plat, it becomes binding. Council explained it was a change
to the construction drawing that was changed not the preliminary plat. Brent stated they feel they have been put in a
difficult position because the former City Engineer gave them the go ahead this would work and they invested alot
of money into it. He explained there was a needed change, but felt there should be accountability from the former
City Engineer. Scott talked about the case involving Intermountain Contractors versus the City of Ammon over the
Sandcreek Middle School. He explained the ruling was only a city governmental body can bind a city.
Lance explained what preliminary plats show generally. Councilmember Ellis inquired about what point
they can be reasonably assured that when they spend all the money for the final details that they only have to spend
it once. Lance stated part of it is continuity. He stated if he is the one reviewing the preliminary plat, he will have a
better idea of where things are going to go. It was discussed that we had a part-time engineer before, and now we
have a full time engineer. Scott stated that ultimately the decision is determined by Council. Councilmember
Kirkham stated we cannot give a guarantee until the final plat. Brent stated he feels the process was in place.
Councilmember Kirkham disagreed because the changes were pretty significant. She stated if the construction
drawings were seen by City Council it would not have been approved the way the sewer lines were in the drawings,
however, they do not look at the construction drawings. Brent stated they fully disclosed where the utility lines were
to the engineer and the Planning Commission. Mayor Ard stated the Planning Commission does not look at the
construction plans. They approve the preliminary plat in regard to lot locations, etc. Brent stated the lines are
City Council Minutes 03/06/2008 -- 3
shown on the preliminary plat. Brent inquired what they are approving when they look at the preliminary plat.
Lance explained they approve general access, general street layout, general size, etc. It does not approve
infrastructure. Brent stated the process they went through was correct and the engineer approved them. Lance
stated he did not approve them because Lance asked him for a copy of the approved plans and he did not have them.
Bill told Lance he did not approve them. Ron stated the process stands for itself. Ron stated in 5 years they have
not had this issue. Councilmember Kirkham asked what they want, she stated they most likely cannot pay the $6000
and they cannot request that a preliminary plat be binding either. Brent stated there is really no point until final plat,
but as a developer it makes it difficult when they have to go back and do work they had not planned.
Councilmember Kirkham stated we have to look out for the vested interest of the City. Mayor Ard commented that
Planning and Zoning does not approve anything, they only recommend approval to Council. Lance stated after a
preliminary plat is approved by Council that’s the point at which design starts and construction drawings start
moving forward, but it is not finalized until those construction drawings are at the point of being approved by the
City Engineer. Lance explained those will continue to change. Councilmember Kirkham inquired if Lance feels the
disconnect is where he feels the City Engineer actually approved them. Lance stated there is no documentation that
the previous engineer ever approved them. Council discussed that the preliminary plat is not a complete process
until the City Engineer is ready to sign off on the construction drawings. Lance stated he has not signed the
construction drawings yet and he does not have a complete set yet. He explained the changes that are needed to be
done. They are still making material changes. Brent talked about the differences in changes that are being made.
Lance stated a cul-de-sac was changed and the road was changed. Brent disagreed. He stated there have been no
road changes. Brent stated they need to feel confidence with working with the City Engineer. They need to know
when they go through the process the feedback will be validated with an approval. Brent talked about setting
precedence.
Councilmember Waite motioned to deny the reimbursement request for Hawks Landing as presented.
Councilmember Thompson seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Waite – Yes, Councilmember Thompson –
Yes, Councilmember Ellis – Abstain, Councilmember Powell – Abstain, and Councilmember Kirkham – Yes. The
motion passed. Councilmember Ellis and Councilmember Powell abstained due to not being involved in the original
discussions.
3. Ordinance 450 – Title 8, Chapter 2 Parks and Chapter 3 Delinquent Accounts Discussion:
Planning
Director Ron Folsom stated at the last meeting we had a lady from District Health Department present a no smoking
rule to parks and we were directed to add that policy. Ron stated Ken also talked to him about hours of operation
and motor vehicles at parks, which he has added to the ordinance. He explained Lance also brought up about the
penalty section of this it stated every violation is a misdemeanor. He stated we probably don’t want someone
smoking in the park or in the park after hours to be given a misdemeanor charge. His recommendation is that we
change the penalty language. Lance gave a copy of the Idaho State Code that deals with misdemeanors to
Councilmember Waite. Councilmember Waite read a few sentences from the code. It was discussed misdemeanors
are a little harsh for these offenses. Council talked about enforcing no smoking in the park period. Ron will change
how the ordinance will read.
Ron Folsom inquired about Item E on the Chapter 3 - #8-3-34. He inquired about obstructions having to be
removed and have the language include other forces assigned in case the City needs to hire someone besides the city
crew to move the obstructions. Lance inquired about certified funds and what the definition is of those. It was
discussed that there is not a definition in the Code. Scott stated certified funds are those verified by a bank, such as
cashier’s check or money order. Ron will change it to read cash, cashier’s check or money order.
Councilmember Thompson inquired about Item E on #8-3-34, regarding shut offs. He thinks the
developers put in the shut offs. Lance stated we are talking about a bill that has already been in service and they
have not paid their water bill – only for delinquent accounts.
Ron stated swearing is also an infraction in the parks also. It was discussed whether or not it is
enforceable. It was discussed this gives citizens grounds if they feel offended. Leslie talked about other issues that
are more technical and if that is really important to have in there. Ron stated most cities have that language in there.
Councilmember Powell commented if we have this ordinance in the parks, you should also have them in
the public buildings. Scott stated we have the authority under our resolution by statute to make the City Building,
City Fire Department, etc. smoke-free buildings, if it is desired.
Councilmember Powell inquired about the water service #8-3-34, Item C. He inquired about charging for a
shut off fee even if we did not shut it off. Lance explained some places we do not have the ability to shut it off and
that is why they changed it. Councilmember Kirkham talked about an incident in her neighborhood. It was
discussed that we would be charging them for work that is not performed. Scott commented this is only on
delinquent accounts. You are using staff/personnel to send notices, etc. Councilmember Powell stated he would
agree but you should charge them a posting fee, but if you did not shut off the water why should you charge for that.
Lance explained they are usually trying to find the meter pit, etc.; but they are out there working on it.
Councilmember Kirkham suggested changing the language to state that. Leslie stated we have had instances where
City Council Minutes 03/06/2008 -- 4
we have shut them off and they say they were not shut off but the people actually went and turned it on themselves.
Councilmember Kirkham stated we should have that documented and it would be fair to bill them. Leslie talked
about the next section where if there is this situation, we will be billing them for Lance to go and create a shut off on
that property. She stated this is new and being added and will take care of the problem if you opt not to have that
wording in there. She stated the city will be charging them for the actual excavation of it all. Council discussed
how it should read. Leslie suggested postponing this until next meeting and have Lisa here because she is the one
that puts it to actual use. She would feel better to have Lisa here to tell us if these changes will be operational or not.
Mayor Ard suggested putting it on the work session. It was discussed whether to have a reconnect fee only.
Councilmember Ellis inquired if we have issues when the shut offs are in private property. It was discussed we do.
Lance explained they would if they are delinquent. Lance stated most of the time they go on the right-of-way. It
was discussed where the right-of-ways are. Scott stated sidewalks are in our right-of-way but are required to be
taken care of by the homeowner. It was discussed right-of-ways can go past the sidewalk too. Councilmember
Powell inquired what the difference between right-of-way and easement. Lance stated right-of-way gives us the
ability go in and do what we need to do and easements still give us the same but a little less restrictive than a right-
of-way. Ron stated a right-of-way, if you look it up, is dedicated to the City of Ammon. Scott explained a city
generally owns a right-of-way and an easement gives them the right to pass through.
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It was discussed to have Ron make the changes and bring it back for the 20 so they can look at it again.
Tom Hunsaker, 2925 Carolyn Lane, commented about park hours. He explained the site bus gets off after
midnight. Councilmember Kirkham stated it is more of an enforcement issue. She feels this protects us for anything
suspicious. Tom inquired about the water shut offs. Could we have a mechanism to lock it down so they cannot go
back and turn it on. Lance stated we don’t have anything and feels it may create more problems. Councilmember
Powell inquired if someone tries to pay them when they are shutting the water off. Lance stated the guys won’t take
the money and they send them to the City building. He stated the guys most likely will wait and come back later
and see if it gets paid.
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Councilmember Kirkham motioned to table the ordinance until March 20. Councilmember Powell
seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Kirkham – Yes, Councilmember Powell – Yes, Councilmember
Thompson – Yes, Councilmember Waite – Yes, and Councilmember Ellis – Yes. The motion passed.
4. Woodland Hills Controller Purchase (Randy):
Councilmember Waite stated we had this discussion about the
Rockwell excavator that tore up the lines and it had to be redone. He talked about a letter that went to Rockwell.
He explained his feeling was that the controller should be replaced with a new one that has a warrantee. Rockwell
had wanted to warrantee the one we have, but it did not make sense to us. Councilmember Waite stated if they give
us a new controller, we will not try ask for the reimbursement of overtime.
Councilmember Waite motioned to charge Rockwell for the replacement of a brand new controller and the
associated fees that go with it, the trips to Twin Falls and the controller company guys coming to Twin Falls, but
will not charge the previous overtime hours. Councilmember Kirkham seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember
Waite – Yes, Councilmember Kirkham – Yes, Councilmember Powell – Yes, Councilmember Ellis – Yes, and
Councilmember Thompson – Yes. The motion passed.
5.
Pearl House Wastewater Treatment Letter (Mayor): Mayor Ard stated he met yesterday with Mayor Fuhriman,
Chad Stanger, Ted Hendricks, Mike Lehto, and the Pearl House people. He stated this was something we had
agreed to in principle. They asked if we would request it and they would take it to their City Council for approval.
If Pearl House doesn’t move on their grant money, they are going to lose about $1million in grant money. If Pearl
House doesn’t go, they will come back and want the grant money back from the City.
Councilmember Kirkham motioned to authorize a letter from the Mayor to Pearl House. Councilmember
Ellis seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Kirkham – Yes, Councilmember Ellis – Yes, Councilmember Waite
– Yes, Councilmember Powell – Yes, and Councilmember Thompson – Yes. The motion passed.
DISCUSSION ITEMS
:
1. Brogan Creek Preliminary Review:
This item was tabled until a later date.
2. Resolution 2008-003 Park Policy and Fees Review:
Planning Director Ron Folsom stated they met with
Randy because Ken needed to come up with a parks plan. He explained the resolution that is attached to Council’s
packet, establishes the fees. It will require a Public Hearing because of the new rates. He wanted Council to see
them and he will answer any questions they have. There is an increase to the swimming pool rates and the language
changed a bit, also. Ron gave a run down of the previous rates. Council discussed the different rates. The rates for
the baseball fields were discussed. Councilmember Powell talked asked if those charges were not charged last year
but are being charged this year, people may expect better maintenance on the fields. He talked about problems with
the fields last year. Ken explained how they maintain the fields and they do not chalk the fields. Ken stated that
City Council Minutes 03/06/2008 -- 5
when they leave them, they have been maintained. The only problem is Saturday since they do not work on
Sundays. Councilmember Powell inquired what time the fields are watered. Ken stated they are watered in the
evenings about 10pm.
Lance inquired if we need to address the structure at the pool that is supposed to be temporarily permanent,
which is the concessions building. It was discussed the Council will not be allowing the concessions stand all year
round.
Ron explained the soccer field rates went from $10 to $15. It was discussed whether this fee was collected
last year or not. Ron stated he is not sure. Councilmember Waite inquired about $10 per game for the baseball field
and $15 per team per game on the soccer field. Ken explained they were trying to be consistent with Idaho Falls and
their leagues.
Ron talked about the $1000 and how it was broke down and he is not sure if it went to the Parks
Department.
Ron talked about the temporary location mobile concession agreement and the way it would work with the
process of applying for a mobile vendor license. They would pay us $200 per location which would be a business
license and park fee.
Ken will be adding electricity to the shed at Eagle’s Homestead. Ken talked about the temporary back stop
they put up at Peterson Park’s baseball field to keep balls from going into a gentleman’s yard and it seems to be
working well. Councilmember Powell inquired how much it cost to put in the diamond at Eagle’s Homestead. Ken
stated he budget for $40,000 and he thinks it was $39,900 to put it in. He talked about improving maintenance also.
3. Annexation and Development Agreement Drafts:
Ron Folsom explained this is also a clarification to the
agreement. He explained they took the storm drain retention ponds out of Item B and added a separate section C,
clarifying what we expect of developers with retention ponds. Lance insists we call them retention ponds and not
future parks. It was discussed it will be a park. This is the first time to review our development and annexation
agreement. Councilmember Kirkham talked about developers required to put in sidewalks.
4. Community Infrastructure Districts (Ray):
Councilmember Powell stated he didn’t see a whole lot of
differences between this and a LID. The only difference he did see was that this one requires a vote and the LID
does not. Councilmember Thompson stated there are two ways to do an LID. Councilmember Ellis talked about
that developers can bond outside of the development. He explained all these funds have to go for projects that
would be impact fee eligible like highways, police stations, etc. With impact fees; however, you do not get the
money until after the fact. This would allow us to do it up front. He explained how the money the developer has
borrowed can go to be a tax line item. Council talked about possible scenarios with the CID. It was discussed the
developer gets the bond, not the City and it can be up to 30 years. Councilmember Powell inquired about the items
listed that it can be used for. It may not include parks. It is before legislature now. Councilmember Powell inquired
about asset depreciation. Lance stated we would need a definition of impact fees to see what qualifies.
5. Attorney – City Communication (Lee/Scott):
It was discussed that all communication should go through Scott
after a threat of litigation has been made.
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6Council email/phone/address (Leslie): Leslie talked about the listing she has Councilmember’s names, address,
phone numbers, etc. for constituents because that is what they told her she is legally supposed to do. She stated after
the Missouri situation, she feels it puts them at risk. Leslie stated she called the AIC to see if we can get around
some of these items and because it is a Public Information Act we really cannot. She stated she also talked to Scott
about thinking about considerations for safety. The AIC said that if the attorney is comfortable with this, then it is
not a problem. She stated she talked to Bruce Patterson and we can get an email within the City link and will
automatically send it out to you. It will not show them your personal email address. Scott stated his preference
would be that they just have a city email address that they use for the City period. He worries about it linking to
your home. They can request all of the information on your home computer, if the hard drive contains any City
related correspondence. Leslie stated that Bruce stated that is the other option. He explained how they can link to
the email for the City. Bruce could come to a work session to see what preferences the Council would like and he
would get it set up. Scott stated that almost all communication is public record. Scott talked about anything that
involves litigation you should put a note/caption that it is privileged, not public record.
Leslie talked about phone numbers. Council talked about their numbers being already listed in the phone
book. Leslie stated we can create a virtual phone number for voice mail. She explained we would have to pay $10
per month for each phone number and each Councilmember would have their own number. She explained it could
plug into whatever number you tell it to. There would be a set up fee that would not be more than $500.
Councilmember Kirkham wonders if it is a good way to spend money. Councilmember Powell talked about a T1
line. He explained you can do direct dial numbers for $2 per month. Councilmember Powell will talk to Bruce
Patterson about the T1 line options. Scott talked about privacy for Councilmembers. He feels we should not be
City Council Minutes 03/06/2008 -- 6
giving addresses and phone numbers and we should treat you like an employee. He feels it is not fair to your
children or your spouses. Councilmember Kirkham does not think it will stop calls to your home. Council agreed it
is a good thing.
7. Pool/Ballgame Registration (Leslie): Leslie stated she asked Ken if he could change the pool and ballgame
registration to somewhere besides the City Building. She explained the destruction and mess that comes into the
city building is extreme. She stated he talked to the soccer arena and they have been kind enough to give us
permission, so the pool and ballgame registration will go there.
8. Misc.:
Council talked about the Deana Burke issue. There is no threat of litigation so it cannot be held in
executive session. Mayor Ard stated when the license came up for renewal in November she said she was not doing
this, but she is doing it. She does not meet our licensing requirements or the State’s requirements. Councilmember
Powell stated his son was going there and he did not know anything about it. Councilmember Powell stated he
talked to Deana about not being in compliance. She told him she was not because she does not have a stairwell or
back door where she holds her preschool. She was given until January to have that corrected. She stated she could
move the preschool upstairs where she has a secondary door. He got a call from her and she told him someone from
the City was in a fire truck taking pictures of kids going in and out of her house. He received a letter that the
preschool had been moved out of the City to the County at her sister’s home. Councilmember Powell stated he
called Stacy. He explained the City was out taking pictures. Brian gave her three options 1) she could be compliant
now, 2) quit, or 3) move it out of the City. He got another call from her last night saying someone from the City was
again taking pictures. He feels what she did is wrong, but at what point does the City correspond with somebody
that is not in compliance with an ordinance. He inquired if we sent someone out to take pictures. He has a problem
taking pictures of residents and their children. Mayor Ard commented that people who have misrepresented or
allegedly falsified to Council do not fair very well. Councilmember Kirkham stated she has falsified in writing also.
Mayor Ard stated our main concern with this ordinance is to protect the children. Councilmember Powell stated
once he knew what was going on, he gave her the options. Councilmember Kirkham commented he is not an officer
though, he is an elected official. Mayor Ard stated the enforcement officers were directed to take pictures on
different days so she could not say they were having a birthday party, etc. Councilmember Powell inquired how
much time the City wasted going out there. He explained different options for handling the situation like sending a
letter. Councilmember Kirkham explained what happens without the proof. Ron stated today when they delivered
the letter, she insisted she was not doing a preschool and had never been. Councilmember Powell stated he does not
feel comfortable with the City taking pictures of residents and especially kids. Leslie inquired how do you prove
things then? He stated he did not know, but that is why he wanted to bring it up. Mayor Ard stated he has seen the
pictures and you cannot discern who they are. He explained they do not identify any children. Councilmember
Kirkham inquired to Scott if you had to go to a court of law, would the pictures be allowable. Scott stated they
would. He stated it is certainly better evidence than hear-say. Scott talked about cities that take pictures of your car
speeding with your face and license plate. Leslie talked about the process of checking on complaints.
Councilmember Powell stated if you are breaking the law and get your picture taken that is one thing, but taking
pictures of children who did not break the law is another. Councilmember Kirkham explained at schools her
children can have pictures taken of them without permission. The only time they would need a consent form is
when you can see their face. She explained that is what the Mayor is saying, that these pictures do not show faces.
Scott stated they do surveillance of people all the time and they have the right to do that in his work. He explained
in this situation it is not a lot different than when a policeman pulls him over for reasonable cause for something,
though he does not know for sure he has done something. He flips the camera on and walks up to the car and the
kids are looking out the window, etc. Scott stated he has put his own children in that position where there is
reasonable cause that some law has been violated. Councilmember Powell inquired when they saw kids
approaching the door, why didn’t we approach her then with a letter. Scott stated we needed to verify before we cite
them. He explained they wanted to go from probable cause to actual cause. Councilmember Ellis inquired if we
require the daycare operators to display their license. It was discussed we do. Councilmember Ellis stated the
parents have some responsibility here too. Scott commented they have to not only show their license, but each of
their worker’s license also and the fire inspection. Leslie stated we purposely chose City cars to do it so they knew
we were checking on them. Councilmember Powell stated he is mainly upset that the City was taking pictures of
kids. He does not want his children photographed and neither do a lot of other parents. Scott stated he is upset that
we even have to go out and do it because she falsified her business activity to us. Leslie inquired about the letter
Councilmember Powell received about the daycare going to the County effective Wednesday. She stated she is still
operational in the City, as of yesterday. Scott stated if she is operating on Monday, she will be cited.
Councilmember Powell explained Friday it should be at her sister’s house. Ron inquired if she is licensed in the
County. It was discussed the County does not have that requirement. Ron stated the State does and she has to meet
fire and building codes.
City Council Minutes 03/06/2008 -- 7
Councilmember Powell stated in no way is he defending her. He wants to know if the protocol we
followed was standard. Councilmember Kirkham stated she thinks it is, particularly daycares. Councilmember
Powell inquired if a City Official can go inside a building without a warrant. It was discussed under inspection they
may. Scott stated absolutely not. Ron explained if they are licensed and they are going in for a routine inspection,
they may enter the house. We do not have to give notice. It was discussed they can deny the inspection, but at that
point we can deny their license.
Stacy, Fire Department, talked that people trust the Fire Department. He explained we need to have the
utmost support. He now has people in Woodland Hills that don’t trust them. Stacy stated he does not want the Fire
Department penalized in any way. Mayor Ard stated she was violating a fire law. Ron stated he has personal
knowledge of abuse and of child care abuse. He explained if it takes 10 photos of children he can’t see their faces
of, to stop one child from being abused – he is sorry if it offends one parent or 10 parents, if it saves one child – then
it is worth it. He agrees this is an extreme measure, but she has proven herself unreliable. We have to prepare
ourselves to go to court, if that is what we needed to do. He feels it is our obligation because we made a promise to
other people who license, that we would enforce our ordinance. Councilmember Powell agreed. He talked about
last City Council meeting with the delinquent water bill and we told them over and over. They parked personal
property over the top of it. He explained someone made the comment let’s just tow it out of the way. He doesn’t
think the City should go onto people’s property and take personal property off of there at a whim. He feels we need
a better protocol or system to follow and we do not have one. Leslie explained we did not do anything on that, we
had to figure out how to word the ordinance before we acted.
Scott talked about if he had to take someone to court over violation of an ordinance, he would much rather
have pictures than even 3 witnesses. Councilmember Kirkham inquired to Councilmember Powell as to what he
wants for protocol then. Councilmember Powell does not want the City taking pictures of people. Scott stated a
City policeman takes pictures everyday. Scott stated he hopes the City won’t take the direction saying we won’t
take pictures of people because the Sheriff will cancel his contract with us. We will not have a police force.
Councilmember Kirkham stated, we as a Council, have to defend whatever protocol we establish. Councilmember
Powell commented the pictures are fine if we have exhausted the remedies. Councilmember Kirkham stated the
virtue of the letter made it so we had exhausted the remedies. Councilmember Kirkham feels the situation would
have been different if she had never written the letter outright saying she is not operating a preschool.
Councilmember Powell stated he did not have knowledge of the letter and if he doesn’t know then neither do a lot of
people in Woodland Hills. Council suggested he let them know what is going on.
Scott stated he is not sure you can ever define a protocol because everything seems to be on a case by case
basis. Council talked about what level the Council needs to be involved. Councilmember Kirkham commented that
it may bother her if random city staff was going out taking pictures, but this is why, the specific officials we sent, are
deputized. She feels more comfortable knowing that. They were also directed to do it. Councilmember Powell
inquired what happens to the pictures. Scott stated we do not have an established chain of custody, but what should
happen is they should go to the City Clerk and placed in the file. When the point comes that they are not needed,
then they are destroyed. Leslie stated that is exactly what she would do.
Councilmember Ellis inquired how big of deal would it be to send an email on grievous situations to see if
any Councilmember has any knowledge. Leslie stated she would be sending a ton out, she stated you would not
believe how many we deal with. Councilmember Kirkham stated this is a law enforcement situation. It is an
investigation of a crime. Councilmember Powell stated we need to exhaust all measures. Leslie stated to
Councilmember Ellis it will have to be a case by case basis to look at the situations. Scott stated he is concerned
when we have elected officials decide when we would or would not cite on a criminal offense. Scott stated we hire
competent people and we need to let them do their jobs. Ron stated that Scott was in the loop. Ron stated if that
was the protocol and Scott is the one who says to go ahead, then we should be good.
Scott explained we as a City have to view this objectively, not subjectively. Councilmember Waite stated
the parents should be thankful this has happened. Mayor Ard stated he thinks most parents had no idea she was in
violation. Councilmember Kirkham stated most parents are not going to be happy with us because they like her as a
preschool teacher, but they don’t see the ordinance as a whole.
Councilmember Kirkham stated we need to have a unanimous backing of our deputized officials when they
go out and do this. We have to stand as one. If we are not one, then we need to address it. Councilmember Powell
stated the next time we take pictures of people, we exhaust all the measures. Mayor Ard stated we did that.
Councilmember Waite also stated we did. Councilmember Kirkham stated if we can all be in agreement if there is a
violation of an ordinance, we can take pictures. If not, then the policy needs to be we do not take pictures. Scott
stated he disagrees. He feels there are too many circumstances that you cannot make a policy on it. He explained
the staff goes out and tries to do the best job they can. They try everything they can to make sure they do not
overstep they boundaries. He has watched the City 20 years and has not seen them overstep the bounds.
Councilmember Kirkham stated that Councilmembers have to go out and stand by our decision.
Councilmember Powell stated whatever Scott recommends, he is okay with. He wants the City to do it in a
City Council Minutes 03/06/2008 -- 8
professional, orderly way. Mayor Ard stated if the same type of situation happens again, we will use the same
protocol. Councilmember Thompson agreed.
Councilmember Kirkham commented that we need to make it policy that the only ones that take pictures
are the staff that is deputized. Council agreed. Leslie agreed also.
Scott stated he wants the photographs marked as part of an investigation and not public record. Leslie
states she would.
Stacy talked about the sprinkler issue. He stated that Idaho Falls reversed an exemption from the fire code.
Councilmember Kirkham inquired if he knew this was going to be on the work session. Stacy stated he was told it
wasn’t going to be until next month. Stacy inquired if we want to wait another six weeks. Councilmember Kirkham
feels he is going to have to wait given the nature of the opinions on both sides. Councilmember Thompson asked
for a quick rundown of the situation. Stacy stated the State published an exemption to code for 3-4 plexes to be
sprinkled. Idaho Falls adopted it but took the exemption out. Ammon is under the Fire Marshall for the exemption.
Councilmember Kirkham stated the Fire Department feels very strongly this needs to happen because you can fight
a fire better. She stated that Charlie argues differently because of fire walls for protection. Councilmember
Kirkham stated the reason they wanted it to go to work session is because we have two department heads at odds.
She thinks we need to have some discussion before we put it to a hearing.
Stacy stated the other issue he has is Chris has been informed by his guard unit that it is a strong possibility
he will be going to Texas to attend training around April 4th or 11th. He will be gone for 13 weeks. It was
discussed to get a policy in place. Councilmember Kirkham stated she will email the Military Leave Policy to
everyone in the morning and we will need to make a decision or change it by the next City Council meeting. Stacy
would like approval to hire someone temporarily to fill in. They would have to be fire inspection certified through
the State. He would like to give our firefighters preference points for it. Councilmember Kirkham inquired if they
could compensate without the extra hand for 13 weeks. Leslie stated they really need backup. There are a lot of
inspections in a month. Mayor Ard inquired if we would eventually be caught up. Chris talked about how he
schedules the inspections. Mayor Ard stated we need to look at the budget also.
Stacy stated we got a call that we should be awarded the Communication Grant we applied for. There will
be $5.2 million total with the County to do this project.
Stacy talked about the Fire Truck Mutual Use Agreement and it was not correctly interpreted in one of the
sentences. They have an issue with putting $1 million insurance bond on it, if we are going to insure it. He
explained where we made the change to the agreement. Leslie stated she did not think we got a motion on this. It
was discussed to put it on the agenda as an action item.
Stacy stated he now has two old trucks and is trying to see who wants them. He needs approval to give
them both away. He stated the second truck is a 1975 LaFrance. It was discussed to put it in storage. Stacy stated
the truck is not worth anything. He does not see anyone wanting the fire truck mutual agreement vehicle back.
Scott stated it would need to be an action item, if we are giving a piece of property away. It was discussed since we
did not buy the mutual use vehicle, to put our 1975 LaFrance in storage in case the agreement goes away in the
future.
Councilmember Thompson motioned to adjourn to executive session pursuant to Idaho Code 67-2345(f).
Councilmember Waite seconded. Roll call vote: Councilmember Thompson – Yes, Councilmember Waite – Yes,
Councilmember Ellis – Yes, Councilmember Powell – Yes, and Councilmember Kirkham – Yes. The motion
passed.
The meeting adjourned at 11:00 p.m.
___________________________________________
C. Bruce Ard, Mayor
______________________________________
Leslie Folsom, City Clerk
City Council Minutes 03/06/2008 -- 9