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12132007CouncilMinutes - Work Session CITY OF AMMON CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES THURSDAY, DECEMBER 13, 2007 AGENDACITY OF AMMON : 2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD CITY COUNCIL AGENDA – WORK SESSION THURSDAY, DECEMBER 13, 2007 - 4:00 P.M. Discussion Items: 1.Sewer Master Plan 2.Water Meters/Electronic Meter Reading 3.Hawks Landing 4.City Computer/Internet Use Policy MINUTES 5.Misc. The meeting was called to order by Mayor Ard at 4:00 p.m. in the City Building, 2135 South Ammon Road, Ammon, Idaho, with the following City Officials present: City Officials Present: Mayor Bruce Ard Councilmember Lee Bean Councilmember Dana Kirkham Councilmember Rex Thompson Councilmember Randy Waite City Administrator Bruce Rose City Engineer Lance Bates City Planning Director Ron Folsom City Clerk Leslie Folsom DISCUSSION ITEMS : 1. Sewer Master Plan: Lance Bates inquired if anyone had any questions about what he presented last week. Councilmember Kirkham stated the number of projected homes we have approved to date can run through the Cottages line fine and inquired if this was correct. Lance stated it is correct. Councilmember Kirkham inquired if more can go through. Lance stated up to 1350. Councilmember Kirkham inquired if beyond that amount would we have to find a different route. Lance stated that is correct. Councilmember Kirkham inquired about the Mason issue. Lance stated the offsite sewer improvement is a 30 inch and that is being reviewed right now. He sent a letter to them today. He stated it is still a 30 inch line going down from Majestic through to Sunnyside and down to Ammon Road. Councilmember Kirkham inquired if we have made a decision as to it going down the center of the road or in the easement. Lance stated that is one of the questions he has but thinks the final say will be from the County. He stated he has to find out of if the County is comfortable with it being on the side. He stated he is okay with it being on the side of the road with a couple of exceptions. He stated there is a manhole that looks like it will be in the center of the sidewalk and he does not want to see that. He stated we also need to get the City of Idaho Falls approval also and the only problem he thinks they will have is dumping it all into this 30 inch line. Councilmember Bean inquired about the flow coming from IBSD. Lance stated he doesn’t remember the exact flow but says it is split now between Iona and Bonneville and ours. He thinks they were averaging somewhere between 1.7 to 2.2 million gallons a day, that is the amount we have been getting billed. Councilmember Bean inquired if they are still within our capacity limits as far as what is contracted. Lance stated he did not know. He is looking for a copy of that contract. Councilmember Bean stated he has one and will give it to Lance to look over. Lance stated we have to have a separate line if we have more than what we have planned. 2. Water Meters/Electronic Meter Reading: Lance inquired as to what direction Council would like him to go. He explained he has the numbers. Councilmember Bean stated Ted was going to come in. Mayor Ard stated he talked to Ted and we need to have Ted Hendricks at our next Council meeting. Leslie will notify him about the meeting and ask him about where we are at with DEQ on the loan money. It was discussed we will put him first on the agenda. 3. Hawks Landing: Lance stated he would like to mention something concerning the platting process. He feels when the City Council sees a final plat, he thinks it would be perfectly fine to have the City Council approve the final plat but he would like it conditioned upon final technical review by the City Engineer. He feels that way you City Council Work Session Minutes 12/13/2007 -- 1 can vote on the final plat and not have to worry about whether it is at the point of being recordable. He stated there is confusion about when a final plat is approved. He stated when it is approved, that doesn’t mean much, but when it is recorded means that you can sell lots. Councilmember Bean stated awhile back there was a firm, hard policy that we do not approve final plats unless the development drawings have been approved. He does not want to step back from that. Lance stated that is useful for him to know, but it may hold up projects longer. Councilmember Bean stated they knew that was the case. He stated it makes the developers more diligent in making sure everything is in place. Bill Manwill stated what happened in the past is as soon as the Council approved the preliminary plat then they would record it. He explained what Lance had meant. Councilmember Kirkham stated Lance’s idea is not a bad one. Councilmember Bean stated he does not have a problem changing things. Councilmember Kirkham commented we are not changing, we are just adding to the policy. Lance stated you are changing it in the fact that it is not all at once. Lance stated they get the approval that they can do it and then go and design it. Councilmember Bean inquired isn’t that what the preliminary plat does? Lance explained the preliminary plat does the entire boundaries, whereas the final does only that portion of the division. Leslie Folsom explained the process for recording the plats and it is not official until it is recorded. Lance commented he would like the signatures to happen on the same day, if possible. Leslie stated that might be tough. Lance stated at least he would like to be the last one to sign it. Mayor Ard commented the process would be fine that way. Council discussed that it needs to be made clear that after they are approved, nothing is guaranteed until all the signatures are on it and it has been recorded. Lance stated this can speed up the process for the developer. He feels it helps Council also. He explained the preliminary plat and final plat are basically how somebody subdivides land. It is more surveying, than engineering. Councilmember Bean commented that in the past years we have tried to take things off of Council. He explained putting the burden back on Lance is probably the thing we need to do. He does not have a problem with the change. Councilmember Kirkham stated the only problem is it gives him the power to make significant changes that Council would not know about. Lance stated he will never make significant changes without bringing them back to the Council. Lance stated one of the scenarios is when a bearing or something is backwards. It does not change anything, but it is corrected before it is recorded. It gives him the latitude to change those things, but not how the lots are laid out. It would be a new final plat to be approved, if the lots are changed. Council discussed they are okay with the change suggested by Lance. Blake Fillmore, representing Jeff Hawkes, stated Brent Lowe, Troy Burnett, Greg Mecham, and Bill Manwill are here to go over things regarding Hawks Landing. Blake stated his understanding is that the Master Plan Agreement will be voted on first. Councilmember Kirkham agreed. He stated included in that are the CC&Rs, the design guidelines, and the sewer reimbursement agreement that he believes everyone has seen. He explained the drafts are attached to the packet he gave to Council. Ron Folsom stated the only changes in the Master Plan were the titles of what the documents were called. Blake Fillmore stated something fell through the cracks. There is a 25 foot rear setback that they did not ask for a variance on which is fine for their low density and medium density homes, but their alley loaded homes they have always contemplated a 5 foot setback. He explained this is what they have in their design guidelines and how they have explained the project from the beginning. Councilmember Bean inquired when they say they have been approved, are you talking about the approval in the variances. Council discussed that it has been talked about, but we did not include it in the variances. It was discussed the back of the home is in the alleyway. He showed what is in the design guidelines on page 16. Councilmember Bean inquired what we are talking about when we refer to rear setback. He explained the alleyway is the rear and there is a 3 foot landscape buffer and 2 foot gutter, which is part of the alley right of way for a total of 30 feet. It has 20 feet pavement and there is no parking in the alley way. You have to be able to park it in the driveway and it only gives them 8 feet. Blake explained that is just the minimum setback. Councilmember Thompson stated it is a safety issue and needs to be discussed. Councilmember Bean inquired why it has to be set so far back to the alley way when they have so much room up front. It was discussed they are about 70 x 70. Councilmember Bean inquired what the typical size of these homes is. It was discussed they are usually 40 foot square which would be a 1600 ft. home. There is a 40 foot greenspace, why do we care if they build on it. It was discussed whether on not there is a detached garage. Councilmember Kirkham stated we have talked about a 5 foot setback off of the greenspace, but we have not talked about an actual dimension. There is a no parking zone, and we need to have a place where they can pull off of the alley way. It was discussed the side yards are 6 foot. Blake stated the lots are wide where they could add an extra stall. It was discussed you cannot park RVs, etc. Councilmember Kirkham stated we have not controlled that anyway. Councilmember Bean inquired how wide Boulder Creek is. It was discussed it was 32. Blake talked about the setbacks again. He explained if the homeowner can have the flexibility of the 5 foot setback, they can stack it. He explained it would depend on the homeowner. Mayor Ard stated they need to understand they need to make some parking somewhere. Council discussed having a 10 x 20 feet parking space. Councilmember Kirkham stated she can agree to have the 5 foot setback as long as they provide the 10 x 20 foot parking pad. This would be in addition to the City Council Work Session Minutes 12/13/2007 -- 2 garage. It was discussed whether or not you could see when you back out or if you would need mirrors on the side of the building. It was discussed backing out will be a huge safety problem. It was discussed we need at least a 10 foot setback. Blake showed what it would look like with a 10 foot setback and a 20 foot vehicle. Council looked at what it would like with a 12 foot setback. Council discussed they could live with the 12 foot setback. Councilmember Bean stated he would like a 12 foot setback and a 10 x 20 foot pad. Blake inquired if we went with this, could they get a variance on a lot or two. Council discussed there would be no variance. Council discussed they would have to have a 12 foot setback and either a 10 x 20 foot pad or a 3 car garage. Troy explained this is not a traditional urban development. It will slow traffic with the narrower ways. Blake stated Troy will look at the mansion homes and make sure it works with the 12 foot setbacks. It was discussed it still includes the 3 foot landscape. It was discussed we are giving 13 feet of our normal setback. It was discussed this will be not be part of the master agreement and will be voted on separately. It will be an amendment to the variances which we will vote on next week. It was discussed the master plan has to be approved first. Then we can vote on the final plat. Blake discussed the final plat. He inquired to Lance if they are good on that as far as getting it approved next week. Lance stated he feels he is okay with the layout but it will be subject to final technical review. Councilmember Bean stated that Scott Hall hates to state anything as “subject to” and feels it needs to be a normal standard policy somehow. Blake inquired if after the plat is approved, then we go to the Division 1 Agreement. Ron Folsom agreed. Blake explained they did not make any changes to the Development Agreement. He explained there are 3 special conditions in there at this time and would like to add one more. Councilmember Bean inquired if we have to approve the sewer before we go on to the Division. Ron explained that is part of the master plan. Councilmember Bean inquired what we have to approve separately before we approve the master plan. Ron explained the design guidelines; the architectural guidelines, the reimbursement agreement and the master plan will be approved and become part of the master plan by attachment and will need to be approved separately. It was discussed we approve the CC&Rs and then the design guidelines. Blake talked about adding Sunnyside improvements to Division #2. They are only going up to the first entrance in Division 1. He talked about Quail Ridge starting at the same time as they are starting their Division 2 and would like to do it jointly with Quail Ridge. Mayor Ard agreed it does make sense to do it all at once. Lance commented that by holding this off, we can have further discussions about the possibility of a round-a-bout and will not hold up the first phase. Council agreed they are fine with moving it to Division 2. It was discussed everything will be ready to go once Well #11 comes online. Blake stated they are okay with sewer reimbursement agreement. They stated they attached the copy the way it was drafted by Ron and Scott. Ron Folsom stated at this point Mangleson is selling property and George McDaniel is buying it and the language will have to be changed if this does not happen. Councilmember Bean inquired if Quail Ridge is an entity. He stated if it is not, they cannot legally obligate it. Ron Folsom stated Quail Ridge is an LLC. Ron stated he would add it to the paperwork. Councilmember Bean stated there is a signature line for George McDaniel for Dove’s Landing. It was discussed this is because he is buying it. Councilmember Bean stated we have not referenced Dove’s Landing as an entity. Ron explained it is referenced in the recitals. Ron will move it upwards. Councilmember Bean inquired if the number of connections is the same as the number of the lots. It was discussed it is different. Councilmember Bean stated we need to change it on the front to read number of connections of participating developments. Blake inquired to Lance if there were any issues on the sewer that need to be discussed. He explained they are right at 6% on their design. Lance explained it has to go through Idaho Falls. Blake stated they are looking at 3 lanes. Lance stated we don’t need to have that discussion right now with regards to Sunnyside Road. Councilmember Bean stated they will want to have the discussions with Lance first because Council will take his recommendation. Blake stated they will work with him. Councilmember Bean stated we need to address issues regarding Sunnyside and the traffic study. It was discussed we can move on with Division #1, but we need to look at it with any other improvements. That issue was tabled for now. Blake talked about the possibility of bulb outs and stated Brent would go over the issues. Brent stated it is similar to the Sunnyside improvements and explained their plan for this community is for it to be a walking community with a lot of sidewalks, etc. They would like to make sure safety is important. They would like to use bulb outs at the intersections to slow traffic down. He presented a document that is used in Utah and one of the things is to narrow the street, but it was already decided we could not do that. So he explained the next best thing is to add a choker or bulb out. Lance pointed out that the Utah document makes reference to a grid system. It was discussed the bulb outs narrow the intersections. Lance stated the main issue with this is safety especially in winter months but you cannot plow it. Lance feels the speeds on those roads will be slow enough to be safe. Brent stated everything they have found shows this is a safer way. It was discussed it is safer for pedestrians, but not for drivers. Brent explained a bulb out also restricts someone from cutting a corner. He stated it slows the traffic down and makes the intersection safer. It was discussed not every intersection will have a stop sign. Lance stated he is more inclined to do a smaller radius at the corners than he is with a bulb out. Mayor Ard stated that the main problem is City Council Work Session Minutes 12/13/2007 -- 3 the snow in our area. It was discussed we do not use salt like Utah. Brent stated they will do them straight since we are at an impasse. He suggested having the shorter radius like Lance suggested, though. It was discussed there are two changes for the design guidelines. Councilmember Kirkham left the meeting for another obligation. 4. City Computer/Internet Use Policy: Bruce Patterson stated the computer use policy needs direction from the Council. He wanted to make a couple of points. He stated you need to determine personal use an dif you are going to be active in patrolling it. He feels a middle of the road approach is good. He feels there will be personal use and you need to try and define what is acceptable and what isn’t. You let them know you are going to monitor it but also give them there responsibility if the violate it. Mayor Are inquired how we could monitor it. Bruce stated you can look at browsing history, but some know how to clear that out. You can also monitor emails. He stated 99% of emails we get are blocked. Councilmember Bean would like to block access to their personal home emails because of viruses from outside sources. It was discussed our business system is not on the internet. Bruce stated we need to have policy in place according to Scott and if we monitor them, we need to tell them that and tell them the consequences. Bruce explained you cannot block everything. Councilmember Bean stated we need to do the best we can with the resources we have. Bruce recommended the way to handle the issue is to give the responsibility to the employees and stress that anything they do can be monitored. The template he is using is from the Federal Government and there are consequences if they violate the policy. Council discussed they would read through it and get back to Bruce Patterson. Bruce stated he needs to understand his role and responsibilities in regards to IT. He came up with a role and mission and what the outcome should be. He welcomes any comments. He stated in order to get the outcomes he needs the control to approve purchases for hardware and software and would like to see that policy in place. Mayor Ard stated they would like to see that also. Councilmember Bean recommended that the Council member over IT work with Bruce to come up with a job description. Bruce talked about credit card payments for utilities right now. There continues to be people wanting to use them to pay for other things. If you start it, you have a percentage you have to pay. Bruce stated we cannot charge them additional amounts. He stated other jurisdictions have gone through PayPal. It is a service we collect payment through and they collect the extra fee. We get exactly what we should get. His advice would be to talk to Scott concerning the issue. He talked about certain building permits being approved for and paid for online. Bruce also commented most contractors would rather use the credit card payments because that is how they operate and we need to take that into account. Councilmember Bean stated he only wants to do utilities right now. It was discussed we cannot increase our fees to cover the cost of the credit cards because it is illegal. Councilmember Thompson talked about increasing the fees by 3% and then giving a discount if you pay in cash. Councilmember Bean inquired to D. Ray Ellis Council should we consider raising building permit prices by 3%. D. Ray Ellis feels that is something they can justify. Councilmember Bean asked Bruce to email a copy of all our building permit fees and all the fees and charges that could be done that way and we will put it on for the next agenda. He feels we can at least discuss it. It was discussed to put it on for the next work session. Bruce stated he had one last idea. He talked about career exploration. Bruce stated it is similar to an internship. He is not saying we need the help. He feels it is a nice service to the community. He stated we would need to define it. It would be for a semester for each student. Bruce stated it could be more work but also could be helpful at times and would like the council to think about it. Mayor Ard stated if the departments are willing to do that, he doesn’t feel it affects the rest of us. Councilmember Bean suggested putting it on the agenda for the next departmental head meeting. Mayor Ard stated the one thing we need to check on workmen’s comp. It was discussed they are non-paying positions, but we can open it up for a paying position. 5. Misc.: Mayor Ard stated he has talked to the County about the flood plain and they would like the City to take the lead on it. He has talked to Williams and told him where we are at. It was discussed the Empey property may be in the works. Mayor Ard stated Williams told him that we need to go through the hydrologist to get numbers. He feels the design is good, but we need the hydrology done. It was discussed we need to get a letter to them. The meeting adjourned at 6:45 p.m. ___________________________________________ C. Bruce Ard, Mayor ______________________________________ Leslie Folsom, City Clerk City Council Work Session Minutes 12/13/2007 -- 4