10112007CouncilMinutes - Special
CITY OF AMMON
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 11, 2007
AGENDA
:
CITY OF AMMON
2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
THURSDAY, October 11, 2007 - 4:00 P.M.
Discussion Items:
1.Financial Report FY 2007 Year End
2.Original Town site Water Project and Related Issues (Heath Price)Ted and Jim will be here
3.CLUB Inc. Presentation/Discussion
4.School Dist 93 Utility Billing
5.Parks Comprehensive Plan and Design Review
6.Bartender/Daycare Misdemeanor Violation Review
7.Misc.
MINUTES
The meeting was called to order by Mayor Ard at 4:15 p.m. in the City Building, 2135 South Ammon Road,
Ammon, Idaho, with the following City Officials present:
City Officials Present:
Mayor Bruce Ard
Councilmember Lee Bean
Councilmember Dana Kirkham
Councilmember Rex Thompson
Councilmember Randy Waite
City Administrator Bruce Rose
City Engineer Lance Bates
City Planning Director Ron Folsom
City Clerk Leslie Folsom
DISCUSSION ITEMS
:
1. Financial Report FY 2007 Year End:
Council discussed overage areas and possible errors in input.
2. Original Townsite Water Project and Related Issues (Heath Price) Ted and Jim will be here:
Ted
Hendricks spoke about the original townsite. He explained the survey is still valid for that area. He said we could
make the argument and go back to the State and say this is why we should do distribution, meter boxes, and saddles
for all of the original townsite. We could show them how HUD defines an original area. We can also do the direct
benefit for the entire community. The direct benefit narrows your scope because you can’t do transmissions. If you
do meters, you have to do them area wide. He explained an example, if the majority of the original townsite
qualified; you could go in and put the all of that system in at no cost to them. Not all will qualify. If you decide to
do meters, they will cost you only about $300. So everyone that did not qualify for the HUD grant would pay the
$300, the others that did qualify would be paid for. The State is more likely interested in doing that, he explained.
He also explained you have to decide your scope of work first. If you choose meters, you can go either way. If it is
distribution, there is only one way to go and you may get turned down. As an area that can be benefited by the
grant, they will turn it down. He stated we would have to prove to them our data. In either case, he feels we are
talking next year, not this November. He explained right now they are unwilling to accept our data, unless we can
prove them wrong. The easiest way to get the grant would be to do direct benefit and spend the $4-500,000 on
paying for everyone that qualifies. Councilmember Kirkham agreed and explained it would benefit them also.
Leslie Folsom inquired if it could be like what Idaho Falls does with their curb and gutter thing, where the City pays
50% and the constituent pays 50%. Ted explained he has never done it that way because the low income people
cannot incur debt. He explained you could do a one time assessment per household. He explained there are a
couple choices they have and need to look into them. He feels the direct benefit would be the best option because it
is easier to get the funding.
Councilmember Kirkham inquired how soon they would need a decision. Ted Hendricks stated if you are
leaning towards doing meters, you would not need to make a decision for awhile unless you want to make a decision
to go one way or the other. If you are not going to do meters, we need to go ahead now.
City Council Minutes 10/11/2007 -- 1
Ammon Water Project: Jim & Jeff, Keller and Associates, explained they need to have a site designation secured for
Well #8 as soon as possible. He talked about the Hill tank being 6 feet above ground and possibly putting Ammon’s
logo on it. Council discussed they would like the area to look nice. They explained they are working with Harper-
Leavitt for Well #11. He explained they need to procure the area for Tank or Well #8. He explained they need a
site. He explained right where John Adam’s property dead ends would be a good site. It was discussed it may be
Robert Suitter’s property. They would like to bid both tanks together. He asked for them to move forward as
quickly as they can on that. Public access to the tanks was discussed. They will test holes in the next 2 – 3 weeks
for geo work. He explained they are moving forward and hope to have several bid packages before the end of the
year, then to DEQ, and to us by around February.
Ted Hendricks explained the environmental update has been into the State for two months and she is going
to start reviewing it. She committed to reviewing it this week and committed to start publishing the finding by the
end of this month. We should have our finding by the end of November.
Council discussed possibilities for property. It was discussed we could go north or south of John Adams.
Councilmember Kirkham stated we need someone contact Arave’s for property possibilities. Ron Folsom will
check with Arave’s for the amount for 2 regular lots for the well.
3. CLUB Inc. Presentation/Discussion:
Martie Harper, representative from CLUB Inc, a non-profit organization
primarlily funded by HUD through Idaho Housing, shared information about who they are and what they do. They
have to apply for funds every year and are monitored closely every year. She gave the Council a fact sheet and went
over some of the information on it. She explained how they work with individuals and the time span. She explained
the two houses on Tiebreaker fall under the funding that supports individuals from 90 days to 2 years. They have
six houses and two on them are in Ammon, which are on Tiebreaker. These individuals living there have been in the
system for at least 90 days and been through drug, alcohol and mental health assessments. They know what their
issues are. She stated they offer another facility on Dakota for 16 individuals whose challenges are chronic or
persistent. They own 24 and rent 4 for a total of 28 buildings in the area. They have staff to take care of household
issues with specialists for mental health, etc.
Councilmember Thompson inquired if they rent the two houses on Tiebreaker. Martie stated they do. She
explained in Region 6 a little over 250 people the first weekend in February were homeless. She explained it does
not count the individuals having 3 or 4 families living in one apartment.
Councilmember Bean inquired if the residences are specifically designed for certain individuals. Martie
explained they are just regular homes. Councilmember Bean further inquired about the specifics for facilities, for
example, the Dakota property. Martie explained that is their permanent housing for individuals that have the hope
of recovery and independent living. She explained the buildings are 100% handicapped accessible and the people
are there long term. Councilmember Bean inquired what types are there. Martie explained they are usually
homeless due to issues such as addictions, mental health or illness, stabilized by medication, etc. Councilmember
Bean inquired who makes the determination as to where they do not have the ability to go out. Martie explained
through Social Security and doctor determinations. Councilmember Thompson inquired about the difference of
types from Tiebreaker and Dakota. Martie explained the individuals on Tiebreaker have to have a job within 20
days of moving in and have to overcome the issues of what caused them to be homeless. They are transitional.
Councilmember Kirkham inquired if they have staff on the residences on Tiebreaker. Martie explained they do not,
they have less challenges and more life skills. Councilmember Bean inquired how many of the homes they are own
are for permanent housing. Martie explained they own 16 that they rent to families. She explained none of those are
in Ammon. The rest are for emergency shelter and transitional property.
Councilmember Thompson explained their concern is to make sure these homes fit within the ordinance
requirements. She explained the State’s requirements supersede our requirements. Councilmember Thompson
inquired about someone that doesn’t fit the requirements of CLUB, where do they go. Martie explained anyone with
a certified addiction is handicapped.
Martie explained their responsibility is to keep residents and the community safe. Councilmember
Kirkham inquired how often they do inspections. They are in the houses twice a day at a minimum. They are
designated as homeless shelters and they have to have documentation they are homeless. There is a HUD defined
procedure they follow. They cannot be permanent if they can work. Regular safety checks are done to make sure
they aren’t harboring a fugitive.
Martie explained the different programs they have through funding sources. She explained how they work
for the individuals.
Councilmember Kirkham inquired about visitors and if they are regulated. Martie explained that visitors
must be preapproved and only in the common area. Councilmember Thompson inquired if they have visiting hours.
Martie explained it is determined by the housing staff. They want to encourage fathers, brothers, etc. They will
accommodate family members.
City Council Minutes 10/11/2007 -- 2
Councilmember Bean inquired what he would have to do to open a home like what they are offering.
Martie inquired what population you would want to serve. Councilmember Bean talked about the transitional type.
Martie explained the liability issues and safeguards to start with. You would have to get referral sources and put
together a service plan with rules, regulations, etc. A business proposal for funding would be needed that would
have to be in place before you could apply for any grants.
Councilmember Kirkham inquired if there is any mandate where you have to check in with the City where
these homes are located. Martie explained her board chair is an attorney and there is no regulation.
Councilmember Kirkham explained she applauds what they are doing, but her concern is the lack of
regulation in the sense that there is more than one of these homes on the same street. Martie explained she
understands the concern. She would ask them to look at their history for the past 20 years, to which, they have not
had a critical incident. Councilmember Bean inquired what is a critical incident. Martie explained when someone
in a home have harmed a neighbor. Ron Folsom stated there is no regulation in our ordinances or State – he could
rent to four individuals in one place, and there is nothing to prevent that. It was discussed there are police calls, but
that can happen with any neighbor.
Councilmember Thompson stated we have a couple of neighbors present that may want to speak.
Jeanette Slater inquired about students who help in the housing. Martie stated they have an agreement
with the ISU and BYU-Idaho, that they are an intern site. The interns can accompany the staff, but they do not do
inspections on their own. Jeanette inquired about maybe a part-time employee or student that does inspections.
Martie explained they have one individual in an Idaho Falls facility, which does a night shift, which is also a BYU-
Idaho student. He counts that as his intern hours and he gets paid also. Jeanette inquired if that student ever does
checks all by himself on Tiebreaker. Martie explained he does not. She explained students cannot drive their
vehicles and all inspections are done by our staff and from our vehicles. Jeanette inquired about visitors and
preapproving, what stops one from showing up. Martie explained there is nothing other than a house with multiple
individuals that have agreed to rules. They will know about it and there will be sanctions.
Brandt Pullins inquired if they are house rules they should know about to help with the upkeep of these
homes. He would like to know numbers they should call if they feel something is not right. Martie explained she
has talked to neighbors and have given them her personal cell phone number. She gave Brandt her number also.
She explained they have the same rights as the other individuals in your neighborhood. Look for anything you
would expect of your other neighbors. They have the ability and right to come and go. They may have strange
shifts for work. Any unusual activity should be reported. Brandt inquired about the zoning and whether it matters if
it is SFD or MFD. He inquired about the purpose of zoning. Council discussed the definition of family.
Councilmember Thompson inquired about the multiple cars in the neighborhood and the traffic problems.
Martie explained they did not plan on having two homes on Tiebreaker. The other home became available and it
was very cost effective. Jeanette inquired how they keep the traffic down. She would like to know that those are the
only two homes. Martie explained not all of them will have cars. Martie asked if they have any suggestions.
Jeanette inquired if they could get a promise there won’t be more homes. Mayor Ard explained there are neighbors
there that have more cars than that. Councilmember Waite explained there is not a limitation on the number of cars
at a home. Martie stated even though it is not required, she will give them a verbal commitment that they will not
put another home there.
Mayor Ard talked about the zoning. He explained the zoning is based more on the structure for the home,
rather than units. Most of the zoning is geared to that.
Brandt Pullins inquired about drug users in the homes. Martie explained they may have been drug users,
but not all of them are. Brandt inquired if there were an incident, who is held accountable. He explained if they are
mentally ill, there is no accountability. Martie explained there is a meth epidemic in the State of Idaho. She can tell
you there are meth users in your neighborhood. The individuals in that house are in recovery and are motivated to
overcome the use of that drug and are supervised. They submit to random UAs and are monitored daily. The
City/County use those houses for the training of drug dogs. She explained they invite them to come as due
diligence. Councilmember Kirkham stated if there is a civil suit, they would sue CLUB. Scott Hall explained you
could sue the administrators, if they were grossly negligent.
Councilmember Thompson commented that having the police come 8 or 9 times a year doesn’t fit the
average household. Rex commented the cost to the City because of the extra police calls. He explained the average
home that size pays for 1-2 calls per year. He explained the City’s standpoint, it doesn’t work well.
Martie explained she is the administrator and it is her responsibility to keep budgets balanced. She
understands what they are saying, but an overnight stay at Behavioral Health Center is approximately $1500 per day.
That will come directly out of municipality budgets. She explained incarceration costs $25,000 per year. If we can
turn around 12 people a year in these two homes, you can save money. You may pay it one direction, but get it back
another one.
Martie stated as far as police calls; she would like to come back in 3 months to see if this record continues.
Ron Folsom inquired when they would like that to be. It was discussed in February and Ron will pull the records
before that work session.
City Council Minutes 10/11/2007 -- 3
Councilmember Thompson spoke about the statistics for recovery. Martie asked if she could bring them
the research regarding their facility. She explained they have better success with women, especially if they are
trying to reunite with their children.
Leslie Folsom told Martie she will probably be sending a couple more business licenses, per location, that
need to be done. Martie said that would be fine.
4. School Dist 93 Utility Billing:
Council discussed the options for the district. Council feels they have done
everything they can to accommodate the school. Ron explained he talked to Rocky Mountain and Mountain River
and explained when they do those large plats to do a plat done separately for churches and schools. Councilmember
Bean stated he would like to know who are heavy users are from now until May. Mayor Ard talked about collecting
surface water rights. Leslie Folsom stated the new buildings, such as Lane Bryant and Shoe Carnival, have meters
but are not coded in yet. We are not reading them. It was discussed what meters we put in there. Lance explained
the meters we will be putting in. He explained he has a bid to present next week. He explained he has not talked to
Neptune yet.
5. Parks Comprehensive Plan and Design Review:
Ken Knoch presented conceptual designs for all parks. He
would like to make sure his line of thinking is in line with Council’s. He explained he does not have costs on any of
these.
Lion’s Park was changed because of safety reasons. He explained a year or so ago; they had kids that
shagged balls into the street. By switching the field around, it eliminates most of that possibility. He explained
there will be designated handicapped spots for all parks next year with bleachers and landscaping.
He does have costs designated for Falcon Park. He explained homes will eventually be sold for businesses.
They would add parking, a right of way, and some playground equipment. This park would cost about $106,000.
There is $15,000 allotted, Leslie explained, so there is only $90,000 needed. It is designed for a business
community type thing.
Woodland Hills Park has grass growing, sprinkler systems and trees in. There is nothing else we are doing
this year. He explained there will be a volleyball pit, horseshoes, tennis, soccer, amphitheater, etc. There will be an
access off the South end to a parking lot. There will be French Drains. Lance inquired about the dimensions of the
drains. He explained those aren’t designed to hold all the water. They will be designing the amenities this winter
for this park.
He inquired about Tiebreaker Park property possibly being donated. It was discussed it will be donated.
He explained he doesn’t know where the round-a-bout will be. It was discussed he will dedicate a 60 foot right of
way. He explained he put the round-a-bout in there and subject to change. The ditch was discussed. Lance stated
as you develop that one acre on the side, we do need to discuss storm water. Lance stated the gentleman over there
has filled the swale, and Jason has talked to him about it so water can get off that side of the road. Councilmember
Thompson stated he hasn’t seen water come down that way.
Eagles Homestead is being developed as we speak. He moved the ball diamond around a little and has bids
coming in for concrete, fencing and bleachers so they can get started right away. It was discussed he would like to
have the ball diamond in by March. He explained he has a $5000 grant for exercise equipment by the shelter. He
explained where the central plaza will be and eventually there will be tennis and basketball areas.
Peterson Park will eventually have to have the ball diamonds and fences redone. He redrew the park a little
bit to be user friendly. He explained they would take the round-a-bout out and make it a 50 car parking lot. There
will be a walking path and other amenities. They will be putting in the mini shelters this year.
McCowin Park will be our central park. They would redo the ball diamonds, and have 3 instead of 2.
Mayor Ard commented that the soccer fields are City property, but it is not park ground. It was given to the City to
build a city building on. He explained where the amenities would be on this park and there would be a new pool
building. He is hoping to get the gazebo started this year. He explained there would be a skate park that would be
able to be moved and a water park also. He inquired about what to put in the area near neighbors. He was thinking
about having a Senior Citizen mini park in that section. He explained there will be accessibility for the busses.
Lance commented about the storage tank there stating he feels it is too small and we may need a new one or an
additional one. Ken explained they have areas designated for park property.
6. Bartender/Daycare Misdemeanor Violation Review:
Ron Folsom explained the daycare first. He stated they
didn’t feel any changes needed to be made. He noted in Item E, that alcohol is not a controlled substance. It was
discussed a DUI does not disqualify them. Ron Folsom explained the only thing on the bartender that concerned
them is the misdemeanor thing, due to the types of misdemeanors. He explained in Item B, they separated the
misdemeanors and felonies. It was discussed Item B is specifically related to alcohol. Councilmember Bean
inquired if “found guilty” is the same as “plead guilty”. Scott explained it is. Ron inquired if an 18 year old gets
picked up for possession of alcohol, and comes in and applies for a bartender permit when he is 22, would that make
City Council Minutes 10/11/2007 -- 4
him ineligible under what we have written. It was discussed how much definition we need. Councilmember Bean
stated he feels it should stay the way it is. Item C was discussed to keep the same.
7. Misc.:
Leslie Folsom inquired if Lyndon Hall doesn’t come in and pay his $50, but we still want to disconnect
that line. Scott Hall stated not to disconnect his line. Leslie asked if she could turn that over to Lisa. Council
agreed. Council talked about the issue with Lyndon Hall. It was discussed he stated he had capped it off inside the
house, but it needed to be done outside.
Ron commented they have aerials of the townsite available now for information. He explained when we
get a scanner we can scan them in.
Leslie Folsom stated the question about motioning to pass work session minutes. Leslie stated AIC has
said yes we need to and to not call them work sessions and call it an agenda or working agenda. The courts are
determining them as ways to get around public meetings. She said not to call them “special meetings” either.
Leslie Folsom commented about impact fees with the AIC. She stated Rexburg is doing them. They will
come and give us a free talk if we would like. Lance stated it is worth listening to them, they have a lot of
information.
Leslie Folsom inquired about the minutes from September where the tape did not work. She needs to get
them approved as soon as possible. Councilmember Waite stated he is okay with them. Councilmember Thompson
stated he is okay with them also.
The meeting adjourned at 7:00 p.m.
___________________________________________
C. Bruce Ard, Mayor
______________________________________
Leslie Folsom, City Clerk
City Council Minutes 10/11/2007 -- 5