11082012CouncilMinutes
CITY OF AMMON
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES – WORK SESSION
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 2012
AGENDA:
CITY OF AMMON
2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD
CITY COUNCIL AGENDA – WORK SESSION
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 2012 – 6:30 P.M.
DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1.Hawke’s Landing Future Development
2.Water Rights Discussion
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
1.Personnel Evaluations - Idaho Code 67-2345 (1-b)
2.Real Property Acquisitions - Idaho Code 67-2345 (1-c)
3.Pending Litigation - Idaho Code 67-2345 (1-f)
MINUTES
City Officials Present:
Mayor Steve Fuhriman
Councilmember Dana Kirkham
Councilmember Rex Thompson
Councilmember Brian Powell
Councilmember Sean Coletti
Councilmember Russell Slack (left at 7:00 p.m.)
Councilmember Brad Christensen
City Clerk/Administrator/Planning Director Ron Folsom
Deputy Clerk Rachael Brown
City Treasurer Jennifer Belfield
City Engineer Lance Bates
Public Works Director Ray Ellis
City Officials Absent:
None
DISCUSSION ITEMS:
Mayor Fuhriman opened the meeting at 6:35 p.m. at the City building located at 2135 South Ammon
Road.
1. Hawke’s Landing Future Development:
Bob Hansen, 3034 S. Chartwell Garden thanked the Council for meeting
with him. Bob explained that there is a lot going on in the Hawkes Landing development. There has been some growth, but not as
much as they would have liked to see. Bob explained that Jeff Hawks is no longer the developer for Hawkes Landing; he sold the
development to Guardian Homes that is owned by Jerry & Curtis Ward. Bob said his responsibility is as the Home Owners
Association president. Bob said Hawkes Landing is still in phase one, with 45% of the lots sold, and 22 families currently living
within the subdivision. Bob explained that Jerry and Curtis are both homeowners in Hawkes Landing. Bob explained that the new
developers have removed the management company and within the HOA they have hired a bookkeeper to handle the finances. What
they have found is that Hawkes Landing has some basic unsustainable problems. The biggest problem is the snow removal on the
narrow drives, and the water bill for the green space is too high and has fallen on the backs of the homeowners. Discussion ensued
regarding the water billing for 2011. Councilmember Slack asked about how much green space area was being watered. Bob didn’t
know the exact dimensions, but explained there is a strip behind the homes on the top of Chartwell Gardens, a strip along Boulder
Creek, a green space along a walk path from Boulder Creek and Sunnyside, and a green space along Sunnyside up to the entrance.
Councilmember Christensen said it doesn’t take very long to accumulate a $1,600 billing for landscape metering. Bob said as a board,
they have taken an emergency measure to increase their HOA rates, and if you talk to the developers, it is a real negative for sales.
Bob said he has spent some time with Jerry and Curtis discussing their plans for moving forward, and thinks that Hawkes Landing has
always shared the City of Ammon’s vision for new housing developments that they have new green space. Bob said they are
considering taking away the green spaces between the homes, and doing away with the narrow private drives. Councilmember
Kirkham said the way Hawkes Landing is, was Jeff Hawks’ vision; but not necessarily the City’s. Councilmember Kirkham said those
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drives were a huge argument with the previous developer. Bob said the City will no longer see the narrow private drives and the
development plan moving forward, is to work in compliance with what the City wants. Councilmember Kirkham asked Bob if he is
asking the City to consider taking on the watering of the greens spaces. Bob said yes, he would like the City to take over watering the
green space in the development’s phase one. Councilmember Kirkham said even if you take out the green space in phase two and
amass them in a park, you will still have the same watering issue. Bob said the developer will be re-platting the property so you will
not see the green spaces running throughout the neighborhood. Curtis said they want to turn it over to the City as a park and the City
would take over watering the park. Bob said they would take the green space maintenance and ask the City to take the water.
Councilmember Kirkham said as far as snow removal, nobody really wanted those narrow streets and the homeowners have to
maintain them themselves. Councilmember Kirkham said she doesn’t believe that the Public Works Department doesn’t want to plow,
but it has to be understood that if there is a car parked on the street or a trash can left out, that would negate the City plowing it.
Councilmember Kirkham said that is the only way the City could get the plows down the road safely and without the liability of
causing damage. Bob said that he has a bullet point that states that it is the Hawkes Landings Board of Directors responsibility to make
sure there is not a single car on the street, and if they are then there is no other recourse than for the snow plow to leave.
Councilmember Kirkham said as far as amending the development agreement to take care of snow removal, that is the easy part, and
as long as you agree with those terms, the City will agree to plow the roads. Ron said he and Scott Hall talked and felt that the City
should form an agreement for a year, and for this winter the City will make sure that it works and then go back and amend the
agreement. Councilmember Kirkham said she is fine with that.
Councilmember Thompson said because of Hawkes Landing and Founders Pointe, the City had to redo the water system to
supply water up on the hill. Councilmember Thompson said it costs more to get water up on the hill, than it does for the citizens that
are living in the valley, and currently everyone in the valley is subsidizing the citizens up on the Hill for the water. Discussion ensued
regarding Hawkes Landing and Founders Pointe green space watering issues.
Councilmember Powell asked Bob if after the other lots in Hawkes Landing are sold, the development still would want the
City to subsidize the green space watering. Bob said he doesn’t think they have gotten that far in discussion with the developer.
Councilmember Slack said the green space was something Hawkes Landing wanted in their development, and doesn’t feel that the
City should accept a green space that other citizens may not even have access to. Councilmember Kirkham they will have to amend
the whole agreement. The concept of the PUD is there is additional green space; that was a concern when the PUD came in how
would you maintain this and afford to maintain it. Councilmember Slack said the problem he has is, for non-PUD properties
maintenance of every piece of lawn is paid for by the individual owners. The scenario in this area is not different except you have
public green spaces that you pay for as a whole and the $1600.00 a month works out to be $29.00 a month for each homeowner. That
is a green space that they are choosing to have in their development because you want the esthetics of where you live. The City
Council fights over fees and taxes, and raising rates. He does not know why he would want to accept green space in a development
that only a few people would benefit from. That was built that way for them and to let the rest of Ammon citizens pay for it; how do I
sell that to the rest of the residents. Councilmember Thompson said even if you turn it to public property the only people that will use
the property are the people that live there. Councilmember Christensen said it is the same case as Peterson Park, and is encapsulated
by the surrounding area. Discussion ensued regarding options of a park in the Hawkes Landing Subdivision.
Councilmember Kirkham said we are done with the watering season, we have taken care of the snow problem, and we will discuss the
water issue at a later time. We do need some kind of agreement regarding plowing the roads since they are technically private drives.
2. Water Rights Discussion:
Councilmember Powell introduced Rob Harris; a water rights attorney, who also resides in the
Quail Ridge Subdivision.
Rob Harris, Holden, Kidwell, Hahn & Crapo, P.L.L.C., 1000 Riverwalk Drive, Idaho Falls presented the following
information to the Council and miscellaneous discussion ensued for clarification.
TOPICS:
Water Rights
How to obtain a water right and other water right basics
Review of City of Ammon water rights
Water Rights Valuation
How are water rights valued?
How the elements of a water right can impact the price of water
Review of Idaho Water Company proposed water rights for sale
Will the price of water go up?
Geneva Steel site water right project ($450 million project)
The typical shape of municipal use – the bell curve
The benefits of storage tanks
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Use of surface water for irrigation of parks (Idaho Code section 67-6537)
Installation of secondary pressurized irrigation systems
Use of surface water for irrigation of lawns (Idaho Code section 67-6537)
Dual pipe systems
Metering
Wastewater reuse possibility
Water calls (water rights administration by priority date)
WATER LAW BASICS:
A water right is an appurtenance to real property
A water right is just as its name suggests – a right to use the State of Idaho’s water for a specific use.
Idaho’s water is owned by the people of the State of Idaho.
A water right is more than just permission to use the State of Idaho’s water – It is a real property right.
IDWR (Idaho Department of Water Resources)
Governed by a director (currently Gary Spackman)
Even though it is a real property right, it is critical to understand that the water right owner does not own the water molecules
themselves.
Therefore, while a water right holder has a right to use water; it remains subject to a public trust that the water will be applied
to a recognized beneficial use.
Water cannot be used in an uninhibited fashion by the water right holder.
A water right must be used for a recognized beneficial use – There is no definitive list of beneficial uses, but these are the
most common beneficial uses:
Irrigation; Commercial; Industrial; Domestic; Recreation & Aesthetics; Ground Water Recharge.
One of the more unique beneficial uses is a municipal beneficial use – It covers virtually all kinds of beneficial uses
(irrigation, domestic, commercial, industrial, etc.)
It does not cover ground water recharge
A water right must be used consistent with its elements, otherwise the use is illegal.
Example: You cannot use an irrigation water right for industrial purposes. This is an “enlargement” of the water
right.
It is possible to “convert” a water right to another beneficial use – This is done through a process outlined in Idaho Code §42-
222 in what is called a water rights “transfer”.
The Mayor and Council thanked Mr. Harris for his presentation.
Misc.:
Jennifer presented the 2013 budget highlights flier that will be included with the November utility statements. Jennifer
feels the flier will give the Ammon citizens a good over view of the budget highlights and feels it is good to know where the property
tax levy fits. Jennifer said the flier also shows other cities that are very close in comparison. Jennifer would like to prepare the budget
highlights like this every year and post it to the website. Jennifer asked the Council for their approval.The Council said the flier looks
great and to go ahead.
Ron explained that when the City granted Cottonwood Hills Estates to be a gated community, Lady Hawk Lane and Whiting
Way were set up as separate lots. The county looks at them as residential properties and they are paying taxes. Their question is, will
the City take them back as roads as far as owning them, but the Cottonwood Hills Estates residents (HOA) will continue to maintain
them.
Ryan Bybee, 4860 Lady Hawk Lane said the taxes are a little over $5,000.00 a year for the roads. They are taxes based on
development rights, but we cannot sell a road. Councilmember Kirkham said she believes after talking to Roger we need to amend the
ordinance. She thinks the Council can get the ordinance amended before the next tax period. Councilmember Kirkham said we need to
write an ordinance to addresses public right of ways maintained by other people. Councilmember Thompson asked what the
ramification of doing that would be in other situations like someone spraying weeds on City property. Councilmember Kirkham said
the main issue is liability. If someone get hurts on the right of away. She asked Ryan to give the Council time to work on the
ordinance.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
1. Personnel Evaluations - Idaho Code 67-2345 (1-b)
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2. Real Property Acquisitions - Idaho Code 67-2345 (1-c)
3. Pending Litigation - Idaho Code 67-2345 (1-f)
Councilmember Kirkham moved to adjourn into executive session pursuant to Idaho Code 67-2345 (1-c). Councilmember
Powell seconded. Roll Call Vote: Councilmember Kirkham – Yes, Councilmember Powell – Yes, Councilmember Coletti – Yes,
Councilmember Thompson – Yes, and Councilmember Christensen – Yes. The motion passed.
The meeting adjourned at 9:27 p.m.
____________________________________________________
Steve Fuhriman, Mayor
__________________________________________________
Ron Folsom, City Clerk
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