Loading...
01102008CouncilMinutes - Work Session CITY OF AMMON CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES THURSDAY, JANUARY 10, 2008 AGENDA : CITY OF AMMON 2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD CITY COUNCIL AGENDA – WORK SESSION THURSDAY, JANUARY 10, 2008 - 4:00 P.M. Discussion Items: 1.River Bend Manor Preliminary Plat w/Water Tank Information 2.John Adams and Curlew Traffic Study and LID Possibilities 3.Holy Rosary School Endowment Foundation Bingo Facility 4.Misc. MINUTES The meeting was called to order by Mayor Ard at 4:07 p.m. in the City Building, 2135 South Ammon Road, Ammon, Idaho, with the following City Officials present: City Officials Present: Mayor Bruce Ard Councilmember Dana Kirkham Councilmember Rex Thompson Councilmember Randy Waite Councilmember D. Ray Ellis Councilmember Brian Powell City Engineer Lance Bates City Planning Director Ron Folsom City Clerk Leslie Folsom City Officials Absent: Councilmember Lee Bean DISCUSSION ITEMS : 1. River Bend Manor Preliminary Plat w/Water Tank Information: Planning Director Ron Folsom presented a copy of the preliminary plat and water tank information for the Council’s review. City Engineer Lance Bates presented a general overview of water tank area. He explained it is 1.55 million gallon tank, 105 foot diameter, 24 feet tall. Councilmember Powell inquired about where the access point is. Lance explained they planned on doing it off of River Bend Manor. Ron explained that Groberg’s would like to quit claim .37 of an acre to us. Lance explained the little strip from Groberg won’t do it by itself. We could put the balance of it in Lot #4. We could do some swapping of land to make it feasible. Lance discussed it would not be buried but would be 24 foot out of ground. You could bury it so only 8 feet shows, but it will cost more. Councilmember Kirkham stated when we get to design phase, she would like him to consider a possibility of burying it, as to courtesy to those around it because it is in a residential area. There are different options to make it look better. Councilmember Waite mentioned the water tower on Coronado by the hospital, that is buried, and it is not very noticeable. Councilmember Kirkham inquired about the possibility of the developer helping with the excavation. The developer talked about the possibility of an easement. It was discussed whether or not we could get rid of the ditch there. It is a wastewater ditch that Suitter’s use. Councilmember Thompson stated he thinks a walking path should go there. It can be rerouted to the developer’s. Brian Hymel, developer, stated his only concern is making sure lot 5 is useable due to setbacks. It was discussed lot 4 is his common area. Lance stated it should not count against his open space requirement since the City needs it. Council discussed if Lot 5 could be cut back to 5 units instead of 6. Brian doesn’t want to cut any of his units. Council discussed different options for placement of the tank including the security of the tank and whether or not it needs to be fenced. Two different options were discussed for placement of the tank. It was discussed there may be a drug problem if it is closed in. Councilmember Kirkham stated she would not like to have variances, if possible. The consensus was to move it into the corner. It was discussed to get it drawn out. City Council Work Session Minutes 01/10/2008 -- 1 Councilmember Powell inquired what will come first the tank or the development. He inquired because if it is developed how will we get the tank in there. Lance explained that if we have access through the green space, it will not make a difference. Councilmember Kirkham stated realistically the development comes before the tank because he is not dependent on the tank for water. It was discussed the tank will be built in place. Councilmember Thompson inquired if there is an easement on the back of the property for the ditch. It was discussed it is on the other person’s property. Mayor Ard suggested to Ron that we have a meeting with Robert to discuss the ditch with him. Ron stated he has talked to him a lot and Robert is amiable to rezoning and is open to other ideas. Mayor Ard inquired to the developer how fast he plans to develop this. The developer, Brian, stated he hopes to start construction this spring and building this summer. Councilmember Thompson stated the other issue he has is regarding traffic and the traffic study. He stated allowing more development, without more access through that neighborhood, is causing problems. He talked about st the traffic difficulties. He stated we need to have Curlew go on through to 1 Street. He is opposed to more development going on there until that occurs. He mentioned a possible LID to help pay for it. The developer, Brian, stated he understands but stated it is an expensive proposition even with the LID. He talked about his development connecting Curlew and John Adams and feels that will help alleviate some of the traffic issues. Councilmember Thompson stated he disagrees. The developer commented the traffic problems were here before he came with his development. He feels putting a nice development in will draw other developers, so they can help get the roads in that are needed. Councilmember Thompson stated in the past the developers have paid for the roads. The developer stated he feels it is crazy to ask him to develop it all the way through. He explained this is way too small of a project to do that. Councilmember Thompson stated he is not asking him to do that, but he is saying we should not add any more development on to this area until that happens. He explained there is an issue like this on the hill regarding water and they are not allowing any development until the problem is solved. He explained safety for the citizens is our first concern. Mike Arneson explained that Mr. Hymel’s development does not add enough to increase the thst traffic problem significantly as per the traffic study. Councilmember Thompson stated that 17 to 1 Street would be opened up and that was not addressed in the traffic study. Mike responded they were not asked to assess that area. Brian Hymel, the developer, stated he tried to address the concerns of the Council at the time. He feels he has tried to do everything he can to be accommodating. Councilmember Kirkham inquired to Mike Arneson, who did thst the traffic study, if it is possible to survey the area that opens up 17 to 1 Street. Mike explained that is too broad and you could not survey it until it is built. He explained that traffic is a very gray area. He feels there will not be a lot of cut through traffic there. Brian stated he is not opposed to the LID option, but is concerned about the time it would take. He feels to constrict him from developing until the LID and road construction are in place is unsuitable. He feels it is a substantial burden for him to bear on his property. The traffic issue has been a problem long before he brought this development in, but his development is now the center of attention regarding the traffic. Brian inquired if this was zoned R1, would they have a problem with it. Councilmember Thompson stated they would not have a problem with that because R1 zones surround it. Councilmember Kirkham stated we need to look at this particular development to see if it has a substantial impact on the traffic. She stated we do have a traffic issue and we do have to figure a way to pay for it. She hopes development in the future will help aid in this. She stated at some point they do have to take responsibility. Mike talked about the levels of service regarding traffic thresholds. He feels this does not change the level of service, if it did then they should say no to the development. Councilmember Kirkham explained why the City would like to have the LID in place. Brian Hymel stated the LID does not stop the impact of traffic. He stated his project does not change the level of service for traffic or change the current traffic pattern. He explained the other property will be developed at some point in time. This would slow him down or stop this project. He feels the LID has nothing to do with him. Mike talked about the single family development that was brought in a month before Brian’s and it was approved. It most likely generates the same amount of traffic as Brian’s would. He feels that Brian’s is not being approved partly because it is multi-family. It’s just not adding up. Councilmember Kirkham stated she can appreciate his position. Councilmember Kirkham stated we need to make a decision and this is like what happened on the hill. She stated we cannot apply the law ex post facto. She stated we have to go with what is before us and how the law stands. She stated this may be something we have to allow because we don’t have the laws put in place to stop it. Councilmember Thompson stated he thinks there is no other intersection in Ammon that has a “D” rating. Mike stated he does not feel that is true. Councilmember Kirkham stated we do not have a policy in place to say that when you move from a “C” to a “D”, you stop development. st Councilmember Powell inquired if Brian would be willing to put money aside to help punch Curlew to 1, if he is planning on developing there in the future. Brian explained he does not own the property, just first right of refusal with Suitter. He said shy of that, he would absolutely be interested. Councilmember Kirkham stated there is a concern about the amount of high density in the area. She inquired if we are at the point where we need to reopen the comprehensive plan. Councilmember Powell stated they are willing to work and come up with a good compromise. He stated they are concerned about the traffic. He wants Brian to understand we would be asking to City Council Work Session Minutes 01/10/2008 -- 2 help them get those roads punched through. Brian agreed. Speedbumps were discussed as a possible solution to people going down that road. It was discussed that snow removal is the factor with them. Councilmember Kirkham suggested we do an ordinance or resolution stating if an area goes from a “C” to a “D”, then we allow no more development until the traffic can be handled. She feels we cannot deny this development at this point, however. She asked Lance if he could help us write a policy, but he feels we need to look at the comprehensive plan. It was discussed level of service “C” is actually very good. Mike explained at the intersection of Tiebreaker it is skewed because the people waiting to turn off Tiebreaker experience a level of st service “D” as opposed to those on 1 Street who experience a level of service “A”. Mike commented that you could use a volume to capacity ratio rather than a level service rating when trying to do a policy. He explained it is industry standard. He stated you can pick a volume to capacity ratio you feel is okay. You can roughly correlate the level of service to a V over C ratio. He explained “D” is approximately .8 to .85. He explained “E” would be over .9, and “F” would be start at .95. Lance stated there will still be the point of where to do the traffic studies. Councilmember Kirkham stated we have to start somewhere and to start with some sort of policy. Lance stated he could put together a presentation about the level of service and the capacity versus volume. Councilmember Kirkham asked if he could do it by the March Council work session. Lance stated he could. Council discussed they would like point of references from Ammon. It was discussed we need to add to the policy when a traffic study is required. Councilmember Powell inquired to Brian Hymel as to what his best guess would be in regards to st developing up to 1 Street. Brian stated he feels approximately 3 – 5 years. He talked about possibilities for development in that area. Councilmember Kirkham inquired to the rest of Council on the feelings regarding this development coming up on our next session. Councilmember Waite stated he is okay with it. Councilmember Ellis explained he is okay with it because he feels we do not have a legal way to deny it. Councilmember Thompson stated he is still opposed to it. He feels it is similar to the water situation on the hill. Councilmember Kirkham is in favor of setting a standard for future development. Councilmember Powell feels we should have had a master plan to begin with that included how to alleviate the traffic. Brian Hymel stated they are the owners and plan a master plan for the entire area, not subletting to multiple builders. Councilmember Kirkham commented we could not use the traffic to be able to stop the development on the hill. She stated we asked the traffic study to be done and it came back and said there would be no impact from this development. Councilmember Thompson commented any study you see from a developer will be favorable to the developer. Mike commented that questions his integrity and he places his professional seal on the document. Lance stated that he read through the traffic study and it was very thorough. Ron explained we give the developer a list of engineers we will accept. The zoning was discussed for the area and what is should be and what it is now. Councilmember Kirkham commented that the developer would not have purchased the land had it been zoned differently. We cannot change the zone now after he has made plans to develop it. Councilmember Thompson inquired if Brian owned the property to the north. Brian stated he did. Councilmember Thompson inquired if it was their plan for it to be multi-family. Brian stated it was not and they were actually denied to be able to downsize to zone R2A. 2. John Adams and Curlew Traffic Study and LID Possibilities: Councilmember Thompson talked about LID’s. Mayor Ard explained the LID will be a bond and the LID taxes will pay for it. Planning Director Ron Folsom explained you get a bid on what it will cost and then choose the amount of time to pay it back. You then assess the land owners whatever amount was decided upon to get it paid back. He explained that Suitter’s are amiable to the idea right now. Councilmember Kirkham stated we lost a track of land to put on the LID. It was discussed we could still put it in the development agreement. Ron explained when you put an LID on the property it gets the assessment the period of years it is not developed. Once it changes it hands, it is just like a lien, then the LID has to be paid off. Councilmember Ellis talked about the possibility of a taxing district being passed by the Legislature. Mike commented that setting standards allows us to exact improvements from the developer. Councilmember Thompson commented that in the past, we have required developers to pay for the collector street as it goes in front of their property. Brian stated they know that and have planned for that. Ron stated that he talked to Councilmember Bean and he feels the LID is the solution for this area. Ron explained we can do a LID without the support of the people. Mayor Ard stated the downside to a LID is if someone goes out for 20 years. It is hard to keep track of after a long time. Brian inquired if anyone has approached LTAC for statewide funding. He feels this would be a good area for it. Mayor Ard stated we are part of BMPO and ours has to come from that. He stated the problem is in order to do it, they have to have it all engineered and then it sits in waiting. It could be several years down the road. He stated the money is tied up for 5 – 6 years. City Council Work Session Minutes 01/10/2008 -- 3 st Lance stated he looked at adding additional lanes to 1 Street and on Curlew from Brian’s property. He also looked at John Adam’s property. He stated the bridges are figured also. He talked to a couple of engineers about the price they are giving for residential roads. He came up with about $2 million to get the work done. He st explained that it does not include Hitt and 1. It was discussed what portion is Karschner’s.property. Councilmember Thompson inquired if Karschner’s would have to be included in the LID. It was discussed they would be. Councilmember Ellis inquired if we do the LID, can we get enough dollars out of it to do improvements all the way to Ammon Road. Mayor Ard stated we would only go to just the other side of Tiebreaker and then the County would have to pick up from there. Lance talked about the different ways to do the LID. It is best to do it on vacant land. Ron explained who owns which sections of properties which is 5 developers. It was discussed the LID would be about $14,000 per acre with the figures presented. It is $370,000, rough estimate per Lance, to go from st the current northern end of Curlew to 1 Street. He explained it does not include engineering or sewer, just the road itself. Lance stated to run the sewer up; you are probably looking at doubling the $370 thousand. Ron stated we don’t run the sewer all the way up to Curlew because that is IBSD. We get our bonds from the Idaho Bond Bank and it would probably be six months before we could get the bond. The project could be started this summer. Lance stated you would have to make sure the LID covers the engineering cost also. Councilmember Ellis stated he would like to look over this more, but feels the LID is a good way to go. Ron stated there is information available to read about the LID. st Councilmember Powell inquired if we can expand this toward Hitt and 1. It was discussed if most of the st property would be included, we can fix Hitt and 1 with it. Councilmember Powell feels this is a good way to go. It was discussed how the developer’s pay for this. Councilmember Kirkham inquired when we want to define our scope. It was discussed to have another work session. Councilmember Kirkham stated we should go and read about it and have it on next Thursday’s discussion. We need to decide if we want to have the LID - period. Ron inquired if we want to include our portion of Hitt Road. It was discussed we may want to have developers do it. Councilmember Kirkham stated she thinks we have to do it. Hitt Road was discussed. Mayor Ard stated we have an agreement with Idaho Falls to develop Hitt Road equally. He stated we have chosen to do it with developers. It was discussed Ammon should not have to pay from st Wal-Mart to 1. Idaho Falls owns Hitt Road. 3. Holy Rosary School Endowment Foundation Bingo Facility: Planning Director Ron Folsom stated he called different agencies regarding the facility. There is an exemption in other cities that allows for it. He called a man in Nampa that owns one which was already in operation when the smoking law was put in. He stated they tried it without and it did not work. As a private club they can allow smoking but they have to allow memberships. Councilmember Kirkham stated she has feelings as to how our community wants to look. It is a commercial area. Ron stated the gentleman called, and he told him they most likely will require a hearing. Mayor Ard stated we, at least, need to do a hearing. Ron stated we have to notify only for 500 feet. The council discussed to put it out City wide by putting it in the newspaper and charging Holy Rosary. She stated her gut feeling is that the City of Ammon residents will not want this. Mayor Ard stated we did this when the liquor license came up. 4. Misc.: Councilmember Kirkham stated we do not have a military leave policy in the City, but we do have a couple of employees that are members of the National Guard. She passed out a possible policy for review which she would like Council to review. Councilmember Kirkham stated that Sunnyside was an issue regarding coming out of Hillcrest High School. There are some upset residents there. She went over and she counted 14 cars out of about 200 that violated the no left turn sign. She stated it took the parking lot about 15 minutes to empty completely. Councilmember Ellis stated the biggest problem there are the speeders that don’t obey the school zone. Councilmember Kirkham stated the crossing guard is a problem. Ron stated she needs more training. She stops traffic for too long. Councilmember Kirkham stated she would like the authority to form an advisory committee in the City with about 11 members to meet and get feedback on what and how we are doing as a City. Council discussed it would be a good thing. Councilmember Kirkham stated she met with the staff this week and there is concern with our insurance coverage. She explained we changed carriers and policies about 18 months ago and they are not very satisfied with the results. She would like authorization to get some bids. She stated she would like to have an Ammon business, if possible. Councilmember Kirkham stated the departmental heads meet once a month and she spoke with them. She stated they would like the opportunity to rewrite the personnel policy. She feels that it would be a good idea. They would write it and present it to us. Council agreed. Leslie Folsom stated that Workmen’s Comp went up from 140% to 161%, mainly due to the sanitation department. She feels when we go to automated garbage collection, it may solve that problem. City Council Work Session Minutes 01/10/2008 -- 4 Leslie Folsom stated the largest non paid utility claim we have is $5000. They have not paid since August of 2001. They admit they have used the service. He is from California and it has been vacant for 15 years and he has not sold it. She explained his name is Steve Covington. She told him to write a letter to Council. She wanted them to be aware. Councilmember Powell inquired about construction dumpsters and how to get them off the street. It was discussed they are private dumpsters. Lance stated it comes to enforcement issues. They are not supposed to be on the public street. It was discussed to send Shawna around to give tickets. Ron Folsom stated the floodplain information is in their boxes and it expires in March. If we want to move forward, then we need to do it. It will be put on the work session for February. Mayor Ard explained the hydrology is terrible, but until it is proven different – it is the way it is. We need to redesign it and the County will help. The meeting adjourned at 6:52 p.m. ___________________________________________ C. Bruce Ard, Mayor ______________________________________ Leslie Folsom, City Clerk City Council Work Session Minutes 01/10/2008 -- 5