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04122007CouncilMinutes - Work SessionCITY OF AMMON CITY COUNCIL MINUTES – WORK SESSION THURSDAY, APRIL 12, 2007 AGENDA: CITY OF AMMON 2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION AGENDA THURSDAY, APRIL 12, 2007 ACTION ITEMS: 1. Hawks Landing Storm Drainage/Street Widths 2. Fire District Proposal 3. Misc. MINUTES The work session started at 4:07 p.m. in the City Building, 2135 South Ammon Road, Ammon, Idaho, with the following City Officials present: City Officials Present: Mayor Bruce Ard Councilmember Lee Bean (arrived late at 4:45pm) Councilmember Rex Thompson Councilmember Dana Kirkham (left at 7:05pm) Councilmember Randy Waite City Planning Director Ron Folsom City Engineer Bill Manwill City Administrator Bruce Rose City Clerk Leslie Folsom City Officials Absent: None Councilmember Kirkham welcomed everyone to the meeting. Councilmember Kirkham explained about the proposals from The Development Company and Keller and Associates. She explained the phases that Keller broke the project down to. Phase one is what they would start on initially, the water tank on the hill, Well #8, Well#11, the transmission lines, the upgrade booster tanks Well #9, and booster station at Well #8. Phase one construction would probably start the spring of 2008. Phase two is the tank would be improved Well #6, improvement to Well #5 and officially abandon Wells #1, 2 and 3. Bill Manwill explained Phase three which is relatively new. He explained it is block grant for moderate income kind of improvements. A redo of the distribution system in the Ammon town site and includes running a line from Speedy Mart (corner of Sunnyside and Ammon) down to Township, it also includes the storage tanks at Woodland Hills. Phase three is just a possibility, no commitment. If we do Phase three, then we would do three tanks. Mayor Ard reported concerning the canal company and the transfers. ACTION ITEMS : 1. Hawks Landing Storm Drainage/Street Widths: Jeff Hawkes asked if there was anyway we would be able to get anything done this year. Councilmember Kirkham stated the hard answer is no. In order to facilitate what is up there and get water there, it would cost us (Ammon) an additional sum of money. Jeff Hawkes asked if with Well #11 and transmission lines and boosters going in at Well #9, does that get us to where we need to be in the Spring. Mayor Ard stated it will help us out. Jeff Hawkes asked if they could start structure improvements this year and be able to put in foundations in the spring. Mayor Ard mentioned it would depend on Twin Falls decision. Bill Manwill commented that we are doing everything we can to make this work, and feels we should be able to but the infrastructure has not been approved yet. Jay Johnson stated according to the development agreement no building permit will be issued until the water issue is in place. He stated you can make the statement that it is at risk to the developer in the development agreement. Jay Johnson stated we have to hurry and make preparations for the school and church. Bill Manwill stated the issue is the City needs to review it and approve it as they go. City Planner Ron Folsom explained some of the cities that are trying to make sure infrastructure is in before the building permit. They Special Work Session Council Minutes 04/12/2007 -- 1 don’t allow the recording of the final plat until the infrastructure is in. The only problem is they cannot sell a lot and move forward. Jeff explained he had CC&R’s on task for the next issue. Councilmember Kirkham stated she would like to table this tonight due to some of the clarifications on the issue. Jeff also mentioned that he reviewed this with Joe Groberg and he suggested that the City not get too involved in managing the Homeowner’s Association, but it is nice to have their opinion. Councilmember Kirkham agreed. Jeff mentioned storm water and showed a few slides. Jeff explained the road width would be 28 feet. He explained the runoff would drop down from the red line to the blue line. The design would be at a 10 year storm with 8 hour duration. He stated that Bill told him a 10 year, 5 hours storm would be adequate. It was discussed how much water that is. Jeff explained they will “catch” anything of the 10 year, which would be 1.2” of water every 8 hours. Councilmember Kirkham restated what Jeff said and stated we typically don’t get more than an inch in 24 hours. Jeff also explained any storage they have up there reduces the spring runoff also. He explained the ponds would hold the water and dissipate it at an adjustable rate. Jeff explained we are reducing spring runoff by about 1/3. Council agreed this storm exceeds what we have in any other subdivision. Jeff stated they have engineered the entire sewer off sites that were discussed. Jeff stated Bill has looked them over. Jeff stated that for a 24” line the total cost is about $550,000. Councilmember Kirkham inquired if we are paying a percentage. Jeff asked if we have discussed who is paying for the off sites that they engineered it and paid for. He thinks it was $100,000 for the 8 inch. It was discussed that Jeff pays for the off sites and the City pay for the oversize. Jeff stated the reimbursement would be important. They would also like to have clarification on what everything is and who is paying for it. They would like to have some help on that. They would like to have mediation with Founder’s Pointe, Foothill Acres, and the 1000 acre development. Bill Manwill inquired if we would want Foothills to develop on septic systems or would we want to develop on ours. Part of that question is density. That brings back lots, if you have 2 acre lots, they will only be able to irrigate ½ acre. Councilmember Kirkham stated 2 acre lots really should be in the County not the City because they are really only entitled to a ½ acre of irrigation. Bill Manwill stated that is not a decision that needs to be made now, but it does before they do the off sites. Bill Manwill stated a 30” line would carry sewer to the whole area from Foothills to us. Jeff stated as it is signed now, they are signed with a 24” line. It was discussed how flat the line would lay with a 24” line. Councilmember Lee Bean arrived at 4:45pm. Tom Hunsaker stated if we seriously start talking about adding sewer service east of Iona, we better look at Iona eventually annexing but we provide the sewer. Councilmember Kirkham stated she did not think it would be a problem. Jeff would like to see this formalized before they spend too much more money. Jeff stated they have worked with Bill regarding what they would like done regarding the traffic study. We proposed some terms and offered a couple of other things. Councilmember Kirkham expressed her feelings regarding traffic count and the times they are taken. Bill Manwill stated they do it on AM and PM peaks and they do it on current, 5 year and 10 year. Jeff inquired about the impacts regarding Dove’s Landing, and should they participate in this. Councilmember Kirkham explained they are doing a traffic study on their own. Jeff inquired if st they could do one, by combining information. Councilmember Kirkham mentioned a traffic study was done on 21 Street and wanted to know if that information is relevant. It was discussed they could, but they aren’t sure Grandview was included. It was discussed what streets they need to have the traffic study on. Councilmember Bean inquired about Bill saying that the traffic studies are based on a 10 year buildup at 5%. It was decided that they could use Dove’s findings, and then have the traffic study done on the rest. Ron Folsom told Jeff he has the traffic nd study findings from Dove’s Landing. Ron Folsom also mentioned the school district is looking at property on 52 and they may want to do a traffic study with you. Jeff explained the design guidelines. They wanted to address the right of ways, home sizes, and parking. Councilmember Kirkham wanted to talk about right-of-ways first and to make sure Stacy had looked at it because she wants to make sure the emergency access is okay. Stacy stated they had an issue with the alleys. The alleys are 20 ft. and anything with a hydrant needs to be 26 feet wide. It was discussed where a hydrant would be and that another one should be put in. At that point they can do a widening of the road, the rest can be 20 ft. They will do a 6 ft jet out between the driveways, by the hydrant and that would be sufficient. There may be an issue with parking and at that point put up “No Parking/Fire Lane” signs up. There is no parking in the alleys. Councilmember Kirkham stated they may want signs at the entrances to eliminate liability. Councilmember Bean mentioned they are private right-of-ways and we cannot enforce that. Councilmember Kirkham stated the Homeowner Association can though. Councilmember Bean surmised if the Homeowner Association does not enforce the parking issues, can we fine them? Councilmember Kirkham stated yes. Councilmember Kirkham stated we have that ability in the CC&Rs. Stacy inquired about Hawks Landing Boulevard. He would like to see 13 feet to 18 feet with parking. He also would need some “No Parking/Fire Lane” signs on the road. Jeff inquired if it is needed on the entire street or just by the hydrants. It was discussed that 26 feet would be needed by the hydrants. Special Work Session Council Minutes 04/12/2007 -- 2 Stacy talked about page 30. He stated those are the homes where they will need the ladder trucks. Councilmember Kirkham inquired of Stacy if Quail Ridge needs ladder trucks then. Stacy stated no they are not required, but it is a whole lot easier to get on the roof with ladder trucks. Councilmember Kirkham stated then it needs to be noted they are not required in this issue. Jeff inquired as to what the issue is with Red Tail Loop. Stacy explained the access is not acceptable according to fire code. Jeff stated they are showing a 30 foot setback on Red Tail Loop because they have a 50 foot right of way. Stacy stated but they have a parking strip and sidewalk which makes the effective setback 40 feet. Jeff stated they are definitely 30 feet from the road. It was discussed what fire code requires and if the homes would be higher than 30 feet. Jeff stated they do not know yet. Councilmember Kirkham stated they are in compliance with the setbacks, as per our ordinance. She stated then the rest of the City is out of compliance with the fire code. Councilmember Kirkham stated we have to decide which law to abide by. Stacy asked when we will start doing it right. Ron Folsom stated we have not required it of other subdivisions, it has been 30 feet. Tom Hunsaker stated he would like to have a copy of the fire code, so they can get in alignment with the City code. Councilmember Thompson inquired about the traffic issues concerning the streets that go into Founders Pointe. He stated there will be a lot of traffic on those; he is concerned about parking, etc. to make it as safe as possible. Jeff talked about Chapter 9 in the packet on Tab 6. It talks about the science of creating safe streets. They have found from studies that the safest street width based on actual incidents, automobile and pedestrian, would suggest a 26 foot street is the safest. This study was done out of Colorado. The factors they looked at were travel speed, visibility, and mortality issues. They are recommending a little wider than that. It is a walkable neighborhood. We are recommending 26 feet of asphalt and 2 foot of gutter, so the street width is 30 feet. 24 feet is the minimum recommended to have parking on both sides of the street. They would love to go narrower than that. Council agreed it would not be good to go narrower. It was discussed they have to deal with complaints like snow removal. Councilmember Kirkham asked if they don’t say it is okay, what will the developer do? Jeff stated they would have to make the pavement strips wider. Tom Hunsaker explained there is not alot in the area to slow the traffic down. He is nervous about allowing parking on both sides. Soren asked if you get more complaints from people driving too fast or more complaints of people driving too slow? It was discussed it would be those driving too fast. Stacy commented that any road with a fire hydrant on it needs 26 feet unobstructed. Councilmember Kirkham stated she thinks the roads need to go to 36 feet and have parking designated on one side. Jeff stated they want parking on the streets, they feel it creates a safe neighborhood. The 36 foot width was designated for Talon, Boulder Creek and Hawks Landing Boulevard streets. Greyhawk was discussed that it is not included with those streets. It was discussed how the neighborhood would look with trees. Jeff brought up the parking issue. He explained what they are requesting, for general terms and occasional surge purposes. He estimated that somewhere between 2 and 2 ½ spaces per 1000 is adequate parking for the bulk of the year. The studies suggest that 90% of the time even 2 ½ spaces is going to be vacant a considerable amount. They are requesting 2 ½, which is reduction from 4 per 1000. Tom Hunsaker commented it depends on the type of clientele you will have. It is a risk you have to take. Soren outlined the home sizes and the current requirements. He explained what Planning & Zoning recommended and what they had requested. Tom Hunsaker mentioned he had meant to make part of the motion at the Planning & Zoning meeting, on the RPA (second one down) to include the 1200 square feet for single story, or two story for 2000. He forgot to make that part of the motion, so he is not sure how the rest of the P&Z would have gone, but it was his intention not to keep them at the 1400. Jeff stated the only one is question is the cluster. Soren explained they were looking at the technical footprint wrong on the R-1 ordinance. Jeff stated if you require us to do a 1200 square foot footprint on the cluster homes and they do a two story, that’s 2400 square feet above grade. He stated he is big on basements and if they do one, then they are over 3000 square feet. Right now the recommendation from P&Z was 1100 square feet on single story or a minimum of 1500 sq feet above grade if it is multi-story. He wants to know why you would go from 750 square foot footprint to a 1200. Soren asked why they don’t like the 750 sq. ft. footprint. Councilmember Kirkham explained how small that is with all the needed rooms. She stated their concern is the stairs for those who are being billed as buyers. Soren stated they are not only looking at retirement couples, but starting couples. Councilmember Bean stated we have an ordinance and have to stand by it. Councilmember Kirkham stated we gave them that zoning. Jeff stated his point was most of these homes will have the basement and that is what they are concerned about. Jeff stated it does not mean they will build the minimum. Councilmember Kirkham stated every developer they have worked with has built to the minimum. Jeff stated there is a variety with what they are going to build. Soren stated they are suggesting that people are interested in higher quality amenities with less space. Councilmember Bean asked if we had compromised last meeting to 900 square feet. Ron Folsom stated a compromise of 1200 foot shadow line is closer to what everyone is expecting, no matter what zone it is. Councilmember Bean asked if we are open to compromise or not. He stated 750 is too small for Council and 1200 is too big for the developer. Jeff stated all they are asking for is some flexibility. Jeff asked if Council would agree to a percentage of homes in with the 750 sq. ft. footprint. Council was open to that, but still concerned about what market they are trying to sell to. Tom Hunsaker mentioned the percentage idea may work. Special Work Session Council Minutes 04/12/2007 -- 3 Percentage amounts were discussed. Councilmember Bean mentioned he still doesn’t have a problem with a 900 – 1000 sq. ft. footprint. Councilmember Thompson stated he could go with 1500 sq feet on two levels. Councilmember Waite mentioned he liked the 900 sq. ft. footprint. Mayor Ard stated he is not really comfortable with the percentage idea; he is worried about calculating it in other issues. Tom Hunsaker stated he would like only two different percentages, not more than that. Ron Folsom asked if the developer had an issue with a 900 sq ft footprint with a combined of 1800 sq ft. Brent stated he has clients that don’t want any stairs. Councilmember Bean stated it is going to be market driven. Jeff stated he doesn’t know how well they will sell or not, but they are the ones taking the financial risk and just want some flexibility. Councilmember Kirkham inquired how much they expect these cluster homes to sell for. Brent explained what his costs are and hopes to make a 10% profit. He feels they can live with the 900 and the 1800. Councilmember Kirkham agreed. Councilmember Bean asked at what at point you will allow a single story. It was discussed a minimum of 1400 for single story and 900 sq ft footprint and 1800 minimum for two story. It was discussed to read as 1400 sq ft minimum home size, 900 sq ft minimum footprint. Council discussed that mansion homes were left at 2700 combined, 1100 sq ft on one side. Everyone decided they were okay with that. Soren showed a couple of prototypes for Council to get their opinion on them. Councilmember Bean inquired who will control the landscaping. Jeff stated they have an outline of their landscaping requirements. 2. Fire District Proposal: Councilmember Kirkham inquired if they are figuring the amount of money they are working on based the valuations in Ammon at $1.42. Stacy stated it could potentially be less. Councilmember Bean inquired about salaries on their budget. It was discussed there would be 29 full time firefighters and 56 trained part- time firefighters. It also includes 5 dispatchers. Stacy explained the fire district owns approximately 34 sets of gear. Councilmember Kirkham asked about the Public Relations costs. Stacy explained those costs. Councilmember Kirkham asked about the advertising costs. It was discussed that is for hiring advertisements. Councilmember Kirkham asked about the training costs. Stacy explained the classes they will have available for firefighters and when they will be held and a small amount for audio and video equipment. They would also like to have a full-time firefighter come in and assist them with training. Stacy explained how he came up with each amount for each different part of the budget. It was discussed we will need 15 radios for the full-time guys. Computer expenses were discussed and what it might cost to get a server with a back-up system. A ladder truck was discussed to be purchased in the future, dependent on if Ammon joins the District. Mayor Ard asked if they looked at what Ammon’s valuation would give your levy. Dick stated Ammon’s valuation would be around $581million. The district’s mill levy is .001214. Councilmember Bean asked what their assessed valuation is of the County. Matt stated for 2006 it is 1 billion 72 million. It was discussed Ammon should be $612 million. Councilmember Bean asked to take 2 million divided by 1,684,000,000. Bill said it comes out to .0011. It was discussed the levy rate would actually go down then. So it is less than $1.42 that they talked about remarked Councilmember Bean. It is an increase of $70, which is not too bad. It was discussed it would be $119 per $100,000. Councilmember Bean asked Stacy how he feels about this budget and if he could work with it. Stacy stated yes. Councilmember Bean asked Dick Fowler how soon they could you have a new station up and running. Dick stated by October 1. Councilmember Bean asked what the cost would be. Dick Fowler stated probably a half a million dollars. It was discussed it may eventually house dispatch also. Councilmember Thompson asked if this is something we can do by resolution. Councilmember Kirkham stated we can, but we have indicated they will do it by resolution but not without public input. It was discussed a letter for public information needs to be sent to the residents. It was discussed they could do a special meeting before the next Council meeting. Tom Hunsaker inquired about the land across from Rimrock. He wants to know if we are going to lease the land, give the land, or lease the station. He also inquired about Fire station #2 and that someday be surrounded by Idaho Falls, will we leave it there or will we have to move it. He also inquired about part-time firefighters, if we can keep their jobs secure. It was discussed that part of Ammon’s stipulation for joining the Fire District is that they keep the part-time firefighters. Councilmember Bean responded to the first question, as it is a decision to the Fire District, whether they want to lease the ground or not. Councilmember Bean stated they have to have a real detail as to what they are getting. He stated that if we enter into this, we need a formal memorandum of understanding. It was discussed to be able to put this in the resolution. Councilmember Kirkham left the meeting at 7:25pm. Councilmember Bean stated he is okay with the budget and ready to move forward. Councilmember Bean asked if we could run it like a public hearing. It was discussed they could have people sign in to speak. st Councilmember Bean inquired of the Fire District, if that gives them enough time before the 1. It was decided to have a special meeting on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 at 8pm. It will be the only item on the agenda. 3. Misc.: Leslie Folsom stated the FBI will not do their fingerprint checks on temporary daycare. The ordinance 2002-302 is strictly for FBI to cover massage, bartender, etc., but not daycare license checks. They sent all the Special Work Session Council Minutes 04/12/2007 -- 4 checks back because they will not honor them due to that ordinance. So we need to have that ordinance changed. Leslie stated she would like Council’s permission to give temporary daycare licenses while they get their stuff processed. Council discussed they do not have a problem with that. Leslie Folsom presented a new map for Council showing every division with everyone with the IBSD and Falls Water coverage. Leslie Folsom mentioned that she has acquired the quit claims deeds for the Curlew road to go to First Street. Councilmember Bean inquired, if we are no longer doing sewer down that road. It was discussed that was correct, however, it was important for these deeds to secure the location across from the Kartchner property. The property tax budget was brought up by Leslie Folsom, also. She indicated we can challenge the property tax valuations. She stated we can cross-check some of those. It was discussed there is $351 thousand we can still pull in this year The Council instructed to go for these funds. Leslie stated that it will be quite a few months before she would be able to tackle this issue but she wanted them to be aware of this option. Water right issues were discussed. It was discussed what transfers we need for our wells. Councilmember Bean inquired if we have enough to do Wells 10 and 11and pump at our maximum capacity on those. Bill Manwill stated we may have to hold back on some of those. Councilmember Bean suggested we figure how much we are going to be short for Well 11 and go from there. Councilmember Bean motioned to adjourn. All in favor, the motion passed. The meeting adjourned at 7:25 p.m. ___________________________________________ C. Bruce Ard, Mayor ______________________________________ Leslie Folsom, City Clerk Special Work Session Council Minutes 04/12/2007 -- 5